Ethics VS Law

[DUG]

A few years back I had an antlerless elk tag. I was walking a fenceline and came across a calf elk hung up on the fence. Her hoof had caught between the top strand and the 2nd strand. She was stuck and not going anywhere. She was struggling to get away. I could tell she had a broken leg and maybe even dislocated her hip. A few minutes later a guy and girl came up on the other side of the fence. He wedged a stick in the strands and got the elk loose. She went about 40 yards and stopped and looked back at us. I could have legally killed this elk. But to me that would have been too easy. It's not the way I want to fill my tag. The girl with the tag did not want to shoot it either. Not sure where I'm going with this story but it is similar to what gr8 white jr. ran across.

[HEADACHE]

I just found the same thing. I shot some pics too.

I thought you found my same elk. . . which means my same hunting spot ha ha, but I re-read your post and its a different leg.

[Gr8 White Jr]

Well I doubt the elk I saw is still alive anyway. I'm sure the coyotes have caught up with the poor little guy by now. Thats too bad that you saw another in the same condition. What unit were you in?

[Diamondbackaz]

Just think of all the elk walking around after archery season dying a slow death from a poorly shot arrow.

[Gr8 White Jr]

Just think of all the elk walking around after archery season dying a slow death from a poorly shot arrow.

 

I'm hoping not many! I know that unfortunate things can happen when archery hunting but I hope that most hunters are responsible enough to wait for the right oportunity to make a responsible and humane kill.

[ajohunter]

last year during the early hunt in 36B I was sitting glassing on opening morning and a coues doe came running down the ridge next to me. I watched her to see what was up and when she turned around I noticed she had a 10-12" gash on her neck and shoulder. And also some hair missing from claw marks. That deer could not catch its breath and was bleeding profusely. I debated whether or not to put her down because whe was obviously going to die in just a matter of time, but I decided against it. I think the right thing to do would have been to put her out of her misery faster than her injuries would have, but there is always someone watching that would have disagreed and turned me in, so I let her walk away.

[billrquimby]

I've had two similar experiences, both of them involving deer that had caught a leg between the top two strands of fences.

 

One was in the Texas Hill Country, when a friend and I came upon a pretty good whitetail buck caught in wire. We could have shot and tagged that deer, but my friend and I worked for at least fifteen minutes to get enough slack in the wire so that we could free the buck's front hoof. When we did, the buck stood for a minute or two, then laid down to rest, or so we thought. We came back later in the day and found it in the same spot -- dead. It apparently had died from the shock of being caught in wire and then handled by two humans.

 

A couple of years later, the same friend and I found a mule deer doe that had caught a rear leg in a fence on the North Kaibab. We could hear her sqawling non-stop as soon as we parked our truck. We apparently had spooked the coyotes that had ripped out part of her stomach as well as a big chunk from her rectom and rump, and she still was alive. I hope the statute of limitation applies after 30 years, because that poor creature was not suffering when we left it.

 

Bill Quimby

[HEADACHE]

Well I doubt the elk I saw is still alive anyway. I'm sure the coyotes have caught up with the poor little guy by now. Thats too bad that you saw another in the same condition. What unit were you in?

 

sorry took me so long to reply, I was up near Kendrick Mtn.

here are some pics of the poor beast

[tjhunt2]

Just think of all the elk walking around after archery season dying a slow death from a poorly shot arrow.

 

What makes you think that all them elk are walking around dying of a slow death from a poorly shot arrow? That is what the PETA and anti would like people to think. Yes, it happens but I like to think most poorly shot animals recover and if they don't then most dye quickly and the feed chain continues as nature intended but with a little help.

 

I wonder if G&F have any statistics on how many they think survive a poorly placed arrow or bullet. Maybe Amanda would know.

 

Diamondbackaz.......I never intended to place you in any catagory other than a supporter and sportsman of coueswhitetail.com.

 

Your quote would bring up a good TOPIC on how everyone thought the outcome plays out.

 

Tony...you've been around the block a time or two. Do you have any insight you care to share on the topic?

[Outdoor Writer]

Tony...you've been around the block a time or two. Do you have any insight you care to share on the topic?

 

And it's a big block, too!

 

I have seen all sorts of stats thrown around in regards to wounding rates for deer, but haven't seen much on elk. Obviously, a critter that large will often sustain a less-than-perfect hit and survive. BUT...just as often...they might also have enough stamina to run far enough away to elude recovery and then die.

 

One thing to consider, though, and this is just assumption on my part: Many archery elk hunts take place during the rut, while most deer hunts do not. So MAYBE, the average shot at an elk might be shorter due to calling them within a shooter's comfort range.

 

As for personal experience, I shot just over the back on the only bull I actually had a chance to draw on during my only archery elk hunt in Unit 7 in the early 1990s. I had guessed the range at 40 yds. but Corky Richardson, who was next to me, said it was closer to 50. So I held high with my 40-yd. pin and that's where I shot.

 

The stalk leading up to that shot was kinda of funny. In fact, afterward, Corky, my hunting buddy and I couldn't stop laughing.

The bull was with a herd of cows and calves in the middle of a big meadow about 200 yards from the woods. So my buddy waited in the trees while Corky and I crawled across the meadow on our bellies to reach the only decent size tree -- a 3-ft. tall pinion. About 1/2 way there, we looked up and saw a cow and calf headed directly toward us. So we buried our faces in the grass and laid perfectly still for what seemed like an eternity. We could literally hear the crunching of their hooves as the two elk passed within a mere few FEET of us. They then walked into the trees, passing within feet of my partner, who had been watching it all unfold. He said if Corky had rolled over he would have been stepped on.

 

And later -- when I returned to the unit to hunt the last day of the season -- I had an even funnier thing happen as a nice 6x6 and I tried to stare each other down for at least a minute at 5 yards apart. And I even had a cigarette in my mouth at the time!

 

I had driven up the night before, parked in an area where I could hunt right there and spent the night under my camper shell. The next morning, I had two cups of coffee from my thermos before it got light, then unpacked my gear and got ready. While I was still standing next to the truck, I let loose with a bugle and got an immediate answer from a bull that probably was less than 1/4 mile away. BUT, the wind was terrible, blowing right from me to where he was.

 

I decided to skirt around and approach him from the side, get close and then cow call. So I detoured to the left about 200 yards and followed the edge of treeline to where I thought I was at least even or slightly behind him. Then I began moving back to the right. I hadn't gone 30 yards and just stepped out from behind a pinion when the bull did the same from the other side of the same tree! At this point, the wind was blowing in my face. The bull stopped dead in his tracks and so did I -- with cigarette dangling from my lips, my bow at my side and every arrow neatly in its place within the bow quiver. There we stood -- staring at each other. Doh!!! Now what??

 

First thing I did is gently spit the cig to the ground and move my boot on top of it. Next, I started to slowly bring the bow in front of me without raising it so I could maybe get an arrow out of the quiver with my other hand. So far, so good. But just as I finally pulled the nock end of the arrow loose from the rubber dealie, the bull decided to take two steps forward and stop behind another tree. Then as I got the arrow all the way loose and started to put it on the string, he moved again, this time getting more parallel to me. Two more steps, and he now had the wind in HIS favor. His eyes suddenly got really big , his nostrils flared and his neck hair appeared to stand erect. Within a second, he was 100 yds away in the meadow. I cow called and stopped him, though. He looked back at me, and I could swear I saw his head shake like he was saying, "No way, pal. I already know what you are." -TONY

 

 

-TONY

[tjhunt2]

Good story Tony. Thanks for replying.

 

TJ

[Outdoor Writer]

Okay, here's a bit of an update after I called a contact at AZGF.

 

Now, this is kinda a "take it for what it's worth" stat that comes from the mailed harvest questionaires each year. My guess is the rates are likely higher for BOTH weapon types, but especially firearms, where shots are often WAY TOO LONG for the person pulling the trigger and often result in undetected hits because of the distance involved. In contrast, the short distance for archers makes it pretty easy to know when one wounds a critter. Plus, I guarantee some hunters of both stripes do not report their wounded animals.

 

In 2006, the Wounding loss for elk, as reported on the survey cards was:

 

Archery Bull -- 12%

Archery Cow -- 8%

 

Firearms Bull -- 2%

Firearms Cow -- 2%

 

 

-TONY

[GameHauler]

I have to say Tony that I feel that Rifle would be right up there with Archery

I think there are people who if they did not see it Fall would not take the effort to go and check for blood or just could not find any or don't know how to track.

Most of those would be Newbe's and might be afraid to say that they did not recover.

Most Archers are seasoned hunters would wouldn't take a iffy shoot and if they did get a bad hit it was from a deflection or something

My.02

[Outdoor Writer]

I have to say Tony that I feel that Rifle would be right up there with Archery

I think there are people who if they did not see it Fall would not take the effort to go and check for blood or just could not find any or don't know how to track.

Most of those would be Newbe's and might be afraid to say that they did not recover.

Most Archers are seasoned hunters would wouldn't take a iffy shoot and if they did get a bad hit it was from a deflection or something

My.02

 

I think that's pretty much what I said in my message. We're in agreement. I think BOTH figures should be higher, but the gap between them should also be closer.

 

I certainly do not doubt some guys don't even walk over to see if there's blood/hair if an animal doesn't react to the shot, even though it might be hit. I've watched it happen too many times to know it does. And of course, those wounding stats don't tell us how many survive or die either. -TONY

[HEADACHE]

Where I had my last deer processed, the guy there told me he had seen a few Elk come in and when he got into them he found lost and broken broadheads. . .

 

He had seen many bulls that way, full of broadheads. . . take that for whats its worth, but they are tough creatures!

 

IMHO they don't wander around and suffer, they dont have pain sensors all built up like we do, they just get along and tough it out.

They don't whine about it like us people would.