CHD Report post Posted August 19, 2004 Against my better judgement, I tooled around this forum tonite after updating my bino ad and thinking for a while about adding some more jokes in order to contribute here. Not surprisingly, I found something that just completely pisses me off. And I simply cannot resist the urge to post this message after reading the statement that .270 made under the 'Hunter Orange' thread. Cal Coziah is not 'the best bowhunter that nobody ever knew'!!! He is a convicted poacher. He was busted in Wyoming for poaching a winter buck. This was after his book was published. This is all a matter of public record. He was also nailed for breaking the cheaters off a Montana buck in order to make it net typical in P & Y. As the story goes, it was discovered that some of the late season archery bucks in his book from Idaho were whacked while he was just out hunting whenever he wanted too! He was just simply "going hunting" whenever he wanted too, regardless of season dates! All this from an Idaho G & F Dept. employee! Another example of this crap is the recent edition of 'Hunting Illustrated' that has Mike Brownlee on the cover with a big muley buck. He was convicted a few years ago for poaching a muley in Wyoming! Again, this is all a matter of public record. Now, here he is receiving phony fame and real fortune as everybody's hero on the cover of a mag! I fought intensely with the publisher and quit spending $$$ with this company after this was published. For all you guys raising heck on this forum about the USO lawsuit, why don't you spend your energy on this cause? Me and my buddies harvest great trophy animals all over the west legally, ethically, and personally. We do it this way because it is the only way to achieve true, deep, neverending, personal satisfaction. I simply will not tolerate convicted poachers being looked at as heroes in the hunting world. Never, never, never. Whoever you are .270, I am an old-timer who has been around the west for a while. I know what the facts is. The younger Arizona crowd on this forum may not have any clue about this man, but I do. Your praise of a convicted poacher irritates me very much. Chris Darnell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted August 19, 2004 (edited) dang CHD, don't hold back. tell us how ya really feel. i've never heard about coziah being a poacher until this. or until the post you were refering too. all i know about the guy is what i read about him in the early 80's. read several articles about him in a couple magazines and a pal had a book he wrote and i read it. met him once at a show. i thought he was a real interesting guy. old guy that shot a junky bow and killed some huge stuff. a lot of my opinions about camo and using the wind i got from reading his. if the guy is a convicted poacher, ok. shame on him. i never knew that. but he has still killed some huge animals. as far as breaking off cheaters. who cares? i think record books are the most bogus thing there is. too political for me. too many rules. i feel they're one of the worst banes on hunting because it causes things like this and causes a lot of resentment and jealousy among hunters. i've taken a lot of animals that would make a book of some kind. never entered even one. don't need it to validate what i do. i like to have a score system just for comparison, but as far as record books, i just don't care. i hunt to hunt. i hunt with my dad, my brother and my sons and on occasion a friend or two and maybe an extended family member that needs some help. i hunt rough country that nobody else wants to be in. don't need a range finder and fancy camo and a 800 yard rifle either. use my 60 year old .270 and keep the wind in my face. take my ol' pony when it's real rough. as far as an oldtimer, i'm old enough for aarp. there ain't a unit it Arizona i haven't hunted or fished. same goes for just about the whole 4 corners and the entire west. like i said, i just hunt. if ol' cal is a poacher, fine. i didn't do it. and i really don't care one way or another if he did. he's the one that has to live with himself. but don't insinuate that i'm that way. it ain't healthy. i like this site because there are a bunch of youngsters on it. guys that are gungho, like i used to be. guys that dream about hunting. after multiple knee surgeries and other crap, i just can't around like i used to. but i still get around. i think there are a lot of well known folks that work outside the law. until they get caught and convicted, there ain't much you can do about it. anyway, i ain't a poacher, don't associate with folks that i know to be, don't agree with it and don't condone it and i feel that record books foster it. never even heard of the other guy you mentioned, so don't toss me in that pile. never even read magazines anymore. to much bull in em. we got 5 deer tags and 1 bull tag, this year. i have 5 friends that got elk permits also. when the winter is over, we will have taken 5 deer and 6 bulls in Az. hope to squeeze in a little out o' state hunting too. some might be big, some might not. all i care about is having a good time. Lark. Edited January 1, 1970 by .270 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted August 19, 2004 hey chd, one other thing, if it's public record, show me. i tried a little when the first post said he was a convict and found nothing. tried again today, same thing. found one thing that had his name on it, it said 0 arrests, 0 convictions. if it was just a game violation, and not a felony, it may not show up. i don't know. but i know that felony records are pretty easy to find. i have to do that quite a bit. but misdemeanors may or may not show up. and remember, record books aren't law enforcement people. just because some record book kicked something out doesn't have a thing to do with poaching. they can do whatever they want, to whoever they want, and i'm quite convinced that they do things to some folks just because the don't like them. i ain't callin' anyone a liar. but i'd like to see this public record. seems that if someone with his reputation had been busted, someone woulda heard about it. seems like you got your info 2nd hand too. there was a big controversy a few months back about some noted coues hunter that got in a row with b&c because they said he altered a rack. can't remember his name. seems like he's a custom rifle maker. anyway, a buncha folks were hollerin' poacher at him too, when there was nothing more than an opinion by b&c. maybe b&c was right, maybe the hunter was, i don't know. but i do know this, he was never charged with anything, but folks acted like he was just because b&c did what they did. if coziah got caught poaching, i want to see it. but if all there is some record keepers opinion that he broke some points off a rack, then heck with it all. i don't even care a little bit. hearsay is just that. i sorta doubt if the ol' codger is even kickin' anymore. when i met him it seemed like he was near 70, and that was a long time ago. but like i say, if there's a record, i wanna see it. enquiring minds want to know. anyway, i want to see the proof. not 2nd or 3rd hand either. don't want to hear that a friend of a cousins friend told ya so. and i ain't takin' up the cal coziah banner and wavin' it for anyone. i just want to know. later, Lark Hubbard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coueshunter Report post Posted August 19, 2004 Chris: I am proud to say I am one of the "Guys wasting time on the USO" situation. I went to an Arizona Deer Association meeting last night and discussed it. I will chair the Deer Clinic tonight and it will be a topic of discussion. I guess if you think fighting for my right to an equitable draw here in AZ is a waste of time you are entitled to your opinion. I sure as heck am not going to stop and spend time on the ONE POACHER you are concerned with when USO is definitely worse for deer/elk here in AZ. This little USO situation correlates into over 300 non-resident tags to the tune of 1,000,000.00 for old Georgey........If you truly are a western big game expert then the total affect of the 9th circuit ruling should have you concerned..........either way, I am fighting the fight I believe in and dont appreciate your perspective that people like myself are wasting time..........Allen Taylor....... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TREESTANDMAN Report post Posted August 19, 2004 Hey CHD, Weren't you going by BUSTER a few weeks ago? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ernesto C Report post Posted August 19, 2004 Allen,we are with you and thanks for all the things you do for Az.wildlife. Hey CHD listen you once belong to our "family" before remember? And then you walk away because of your "mistake" so please dont make the same mistake twice. If you support USO that's your choice(you know what I'm talking about) so please my friend;we already have enough enemys we do not need a traitor now. May the Lord be with you,remember that the Lord is happiness and love and He also is your friend.....the 3 things that are waiting for you. Take care every body,keep sending emails to to USO supporters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted August 19, 2004 you go get em allen. i wondered if anybody with any smarts would help me out. good post dude. Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
111 Report post Posted August 19, 2004 CHD, Who the fuc* you think you are? I fought USO because I deserve the right to hunt over a nonresident. I support the Arizona Game and Fish Department to help wildlife in Arizona by attending events and spending money for them. You sound like a USO supporter yourself and that would qualify you as a poacher yourself. I don't need to do any research on wheather your a poacher or not, just like you didn't do any research or thinking before you posted. Get rid of your big bold letters, yes we can see. If you are "Buster" under a new name spend your time somewhere else, I got tired of that SH*t a long time ago. Other than that keep fighting USO and sending emails. Later, Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHD Report post Posted August 19, 2004 Hey Allen Taylor, Go get 'em (not me)! I definitely admire your being outspoken and standing up for what you believe in and standing up for hunting! Not many do. I didn't say anywhere in my message that you were "wasting" your time on the USO issue, nor do I believe it. You are misunderstanding my point. What I should have said is to ALSO spend some of your plentiful energy on exposing poachers and their supportors. Didn't mean to offend you. I just happen to be on the 'expose a poacher' bandwagon these days. This is one of the causes I am outspoken about, similar to your anti-USO crusade. Again, I certainly admire you for your efforts and dedication to hunting. Hey .270, I'm glad you responded. Yessirree, I have an intense personality. Not many like it. I just have a short fuse these days for wildlife violators being in magazines, videos, books, etc... and being looked upon by the unknowing as legit. I always like the "Poaching Section" that is sometimes (but too infrequent) in the Eastmans' Journal. There seems to be a lot of misrepresentations in the magazines lately also. Included are 1) hunters lying about scores, 2) outfitters lying about scores, 3) guided hunters acting like they did it themselves, 4) wildlife violators in articles, etc... Coziah is one who turned my stomach because he was written up in Outdoor Life or one of the big mags about 20 years ago. Then he wrote his book, which I bought. Then I read an article in a Wyoming newspaper about 10 years ago that explained how he was convicted for killing a muley in western Wyo during the winter. The article also described how P & Y disqualified a Montana buck he tried to enter by breaking off the kickers. I ain't willing to spend time finding this conviction info for you. I don't judge people on heresay spread by envious, ego-driven hunters. I have read enough that the guy has no credibility with me forever, period. .270, I completely agree with your opinion about record books and record book clubs. I also didn't insinuate that you were a poacher, not do I believe it. You seem like a very ethical hunter to me. Unlike some, I automatically believe hunter's success stories on great trophies. In other words, they are ethical to me until they are convicted or proven otherwise. But if they are indeed a proven wildlife violator............ then I am done with them. And I will continue to remind folks about them and not spend $$$ on vids, books, mags, gear, etc... that knowingly have these people involved just to make $$$. Like Mike Eastman, this is my favorite cause when it comes to trophy hunting. Enough, I have to get back to work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COUESAZ Report post Posted August 19, 2004 Isn't this the same trouble that Ryan Hatch was in I have the case here at the house I will find it and read it again. I know alot of it was thrown out of court. Like Ryan being paid to guide on the res. His pay was a lunch at taco bell. so you see what I mean about it was thrown out of court. I know there was some fees that had top be paid. And one guy lost a plane or somthing like that. I will stop what I am saying until I read it again. I do not want to be writing lies on here. Or writing things I do not know for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted August 19, 2004 Az. guide, hatch got caught up in the "operation navajo buck" deal. him, sam carpenter and julius fortuna and a hunter or 2. they all plead guilty to some lesser stuff, except the hunter or hunters and i think fortuna. seems like at least one of the hunters got hammered big. 20 or 30 grand. sam plead to some misdemeanors. seems like he picked up some sheds in the grand canyon park. can't take anything out of a national park. from what i read the were trying to use his as a wedge on the other guys. can't remember all of it, but it had to do with using a chute plane and a big buck of the navajo rez. in hatch's case, he is a convicted poacher. he has a real infamous reputation. don't know him personally, or care too, but folks i know that do know him, including one of his cousins, really dislike the guy. looked to me like the case had some real merit but the guys investigating it did a pretty bad job on their end of the case and most of it slipped away. but i know hatch and i think fortuna plead guilty to some stuff. so there had to be something there to start with, or they wouldn't have plead. they spent big $$$ fighting it. it was kinda wierd all through. i remember reading once that julius fortuna wasn't really julius fortuna and they were trying to figure who he really was exactly. that seemed real odd to me. according to an article posted elsewhere on here today, it says that the deal with taulman getting busted for flying and spotting elk during season was part of the "operation". i hadn't heard that before. i had heard about the case against taulman, but not that it was part of the "operation navajo buck" deal. the whole case doesn't paint a very good picture of guides and outfitters in general. i also heard that the charges against taulman were dropped. which is a cryin' shame. the hunting world is turning into a dang soap opera. the knight and hale guys got busted for some sorta violation in utah and plead guilty. some guy tied with buckmasters blew his guides head off on and elk hunt in new mex last year. there was the fiasco with my ol' buddy kirt darner and b&c a few years back. then he even got hammered for letting a client shoot a cow elk from the truck a couple years ago. turned out it was a robot. man, that'd be embarrassing. the deal with operation navajo buck and taulman and stayner. man, it goes on and on. glad i ain't a guide anymore. and chd, if you didn't lump me in with the rest o' the poachers, you did a pretty good job of hiding it. i sure felt like you were. as far as cal goes, whatever. he's probably dead now anyway. and until i see something definitive, i'm not gonna throw any rocks. and i ain't ethical, i'm legal. all ethics are is an opinion, and in my opinion, i think i'll go huntin'.............Lark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azpackhorse Report post Posted August 19, 2004 you go get em allen. i wondered if anybody with any smarts would help me out. good post dude. Lark. Aren't you the one .270 that was so upset over the letter from USO to thier clients that called Arizonans "uneducated" Just a thought. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted August 19, 2004 be nice packhorse, i'm one o' the good guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COUESAZ Report post Posted August 19, 2004 .270 That is the one I was thinking about I thought that CHD said something about it being called operation navajo buck. Yes Ryan Hatch has that reputation I have heard him called shootem when you see them hatch. He does know where toi find them though. I do not know him either but a friend of mine does and said he did not know where to stand on that whole thing. That is why I stoped in my other post because I did not have all the facts. I did just find the article in the trophy hunter mag. It could be a bit biased though. I will read it more and see what it says. Thank you for the info .270 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CHD Report post Posted August 19, 2004 Hey .270 & AZGUIDE, Good discussion. .270, I believe you when you say you didn't know about Cal. It was a big story 15 or so years ago as his shenanigans became exposed. His notoriety and fame sure subsided quickly, similar to Darner. And this was before the internet. There are some characters out there that are questionable, as you mentioned. There are also some dang good legit hunters with incredible trophy collections. One thing that bothers me today is that 2 of the most visible and known trophy muley hunters today are convicted poachers. They have both been convicted of illegally killing muleys. They are making vids and selling them left and right, are in magazine articles, and are looked upon as the great ones of today. They always seem to have their names and pics everywhere. This is incredible to me. How do you believe anything they say? One time one of these guys told me "every successful trophy mule deer hunter has a skeleton or two in the closet" just to act like he wasn't different than the rest. I still can't believe he made that statement. I watched one of these guys get huffy at an outdoor show when someone claimed he was squirrelly. What a hypocrite! I know a guy that just had his buck story in one of these mags, and the score is completely misrepresented so that the buck looks bigger and the hunter looks better. I have a copy of the official scoresheet, too. I will definitely be dropping the publisher an email. I once emailed the publisher of one mag a note that a buck was described as 194 B & C but it was clearly 175-180. He responded with "I know that, but I still put it in". WTF??? I recently saw some muley guides in stories in one of these mags who are convicted poachers also. There was a guy from Rock Springs in the '80's trying to get famous (he was for a while) by whacking winter range bucks and then claiming to kill a big one every fall. He was finally caught and exposed. Plenty of guides have kill photos in their brochures that they didn't guide to. As so it goes in the world of trophy hunting. Hey Ernesto, long time no speak! I remember you partner. How's life for you these days? I hope everything is going well for you. I am a temporary member of the family here again, and will be leaving soon. Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites