Elmacho Report post Posted December 5, 2015 Guys,....and Gals... I have a rifle that was shooting .7 groups for 5 years straight, with factory ammo....about 350 rds total. Barnes Vor-tx 140 grain was the key. I cant find another ammo that works. All of a sudden, it all went to heck. 3 inch groups. I went thru the gun, sent the scope back to leupold....all clear, put it on a mcmillan stock, reassembled it all and it is no good. WHO WOULD YOU ALL RECOMMEND TO TAKE THE RIFLE TO TO GO THRU IT, SHOOT IT AND AND GET IT BACK TO "NORMAL"? I have spent a ton of time and 1.5 years later cannot figure it out on my own. It is a Rem 700 CDL, 270WSM. Scope is a VX-3 4-14. Timney trigger at 3.0lbs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forepaw Report post Posted December 5, 2015 Sounds like you need to find a good smith and have them re-crown your barrel. Throat wear would generally not decrease accuracy as dramatically as what you are seeing. Besides, your total round count is not high, so it makes me think something has damaged the crown. forepaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeffro Report post Posted December 5, 2015 Copper build up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted December 5, 2015 When was the last time you cleaned it? I mean CLEANED it, got all the copper out. Barns CR10 and JB Bore Paste. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elmacho Report post Posted December 5, 2015 I see no visible damage to the crown with a 10x magnifing glass, but I am no expert. Definitely going to have it looked at. My cleaning routine is this: 2 patches of shooters choice copper remover, wait 5 minutes, scrub 10 laps with nylon brush, flush with gun scrubber, dry patch, repeat 3 times, or until clean patches, 2 oiled patches, 1 dry patch a few minutes later. I did a JB bore paste treatment 40 rounds ago....no effect Any names of really good smiths in upper phoenix, one that will also test loads through it? Very frusterating spedning more time trying to tinker with the gun than actually hunting or practicing.... Thanks guys! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bustedknuckleinc Report post Posted December 5, 2015 Maybe the factory Changed the load? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forepaw Report post Posted December 5, 2015 I take it the nylon brush is used instead of a brass bristle brush due to SC copper remover? I generally use SC bore cleaner (#4) only with a brass brush, as follows: 3 wet patches; wet bore brush, about 2x for each round fired; dry patch; wet patch x2 then wait; dry patch or two, then wipe out chamber and done. If it is extra dirty, I will make an extra pass with brush, or else use JB Bore Paste. I know how aggravating this can be. You have got yourself a real mystery, but something is behind it. Let us know what you find out. I have found Barnes bullets to be pretty consistent, both in handloads and Fed. Premium factory. I only know of one smith who has a borescope available (no charge when I used his service) but he is in Lake Havasu City. I am sure there are others, but a close inspection would probably be useful in ruling out bore wear or some irregularity that is not apparent. It would take some abuse to eat up a barrel in 350 rds. but I expect it is possible. forepaw Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azgutpile Report post Posted December 5, 2015 Make sure your magazine isn't binding between the bottom metal and the action, use a brass brush, make sure the rings are on straight and tight and try cleaning the copper out of it again. If that doesn't work, have someone else shoot the rifle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elmacho Report post Posted December 6, 2015 BustedKnuckle...thanks, I just ordered some Nosler loads....I have a hunch it may be the loads changed....especially since the barnes cartridges treated mevery well for so long. I found that the Blue-boxed federals were super accurate too, but upon shooting a coues with them last year, not impressed....pencil hole damage thru and thru for two shots....luckily it knicked an artery or it would have been a rodeo...we'll see how the Nosler cartridges work.. I also went ahead and did a doulde regimine of JB Bore Paste today.....with a brass brush....more dirty than anticipated....lets hope this was it ...period! (I looked with a magnifier and flash light down the bore from the crown and could see some bright red copper smiling at me........) Will go check the bottom metal too. Thanks again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstcoueswas80 Report post Posted December 6, 2015 Jb comes out pitch black no matter the condition of the barrel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big or Bust Report post Posted December 6, 2015 Checked your scope mounts? Lots of issues arise here... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted December 6, 2015 Maybe your turning into a shacky old fart Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AlexB Report post Posted December 6, 2015 Work up a custom load Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elmacho Report post Posted December 17, 2015 ok. so I went thru it again. Changed ammo, it is definitely part of the problem. This verified something is wrong too. Groups are showing horizontal variance. 100 yd groups are 1 inch tall x 2.75 inches wide. Before I sent the scope back to leupold, I was having issues with 1" tall x 7" wide groups. So, I have concluded that some of the ammunition is at fault when they go all over the place, but have deduced that when the ammo is good, I still have a left-right issue. Gun is free floated and pillar bedded. What else causes this issue. Also, spoke with Talley about the rings....they told me they can wear out? REALLY???? never heard of that before....does that happen? again, appx 400 rds in the gun... Thanks, Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lancetkenyon Report post Posted December 17, 2015 If it were me, I would tear the rings and mount apart and Loc-tite, reinstall and torque to spec. Same with the action screws. I have never heard of Talley rings "wearing out", but I guess it could happen. Have you tried a different scope or shooter? Also, have you checked the crown? The tiniest of dings can cause all sorts of problems. Have you tried/do you have access to hand loads? Sometimes horizontal/vertical dispersion can be caused by inconsistent neck tension or seating depth changes. So can stock torque, trigger pull, etc. (meaning shooter error). I don't "grip" a rifle stock unless I am shooting offhand. I place fingertips on the front of the grip and lay my thumb alongside, and not wrapped around. Squeeze the trigger with the tip of the finger, not the first digit fingerprint area. Don't forget to pre-load the rifle a bit too (push forward a touch). Too much or too little cheek weld will cause issues too. And watch rifle cant. Make sure it is level. Parallax adjusted correctly? If not, cheek weld, eye box, etc. will cause a big shift in POI. Clean, clean, clean, then shoot a few to refoul the barrel. It could take anywhere from 3 to 20 rounds to get it fouled back in. One last thing.....wind variation while shooting? It would have to be pretty severe to cause 3" at 100 yards, but you never know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
