Bergers FAILED me horribly

[lancetkenyon]

That is poor performance. I just watched a spike elk get hosed with a 285 amax out of my 338 lapua. I can guarantee it expanded

That is like comparing apples to Ferraris.

[trphyhntr]

I can't imagine 150fps is the difference between a mushroom and no mushroom at all

[.270]

Use hornady interlocks. They work every time, no exceptions. And don't have the "premium" bs price tag. Lark

[STOMP442]

Use hornady interlocks. They work every time, no exceptions. And don't have the "premium" bs price tag. Lark

They also don't have premium tolerances,premium bc or shoot nearly as good.

 

Bottom line is no one bullet is fail proof and when you hunt and shoot things long enough especially at long range there are bound to be results you are not pleased with. Just to many variables to account for.

[mgorm16640]

At that range and at 30 06 velocity I would strongly consider Accubonds. They have always expanded for me out of 30 06, but I don't shoot past 400. Just my self imposed limit.

[Presmyk]

Stomp you a prostaff for berger or what? Lol. My 338 shoots nosler and hornady better then the berger by far. Berger open up my group almost 1.5" more. Every gun is different and has different purposes. Joel you just need to oit the big boy pants on give thay gun to the wife and join the magnum club lol

[.270]

I've killed just about everything the west has with interloks. NEVER had one fail at any range, on any animal, with any caliber. Made lots of shots over 500 yds out as far as 910 yds, with perfect results. And dozens of kills at closer ranges. I've also seen plenty of horrible results with "premium" bullets. You can say what you want, use what you want, but I've had plenty of experience to be able to rely on them with no reservation. You can also use all the theoretical numbers on paper you want, ft/lbs, bc, whatever number you can think of, results is all I care about and that is what I use. I dam sure never had an interlok fail to open up, on anything, at any range, on any animal. Waste all the $ you want on your fancy bullets. I'll stick to my cheap ol' hornadys and just keep killin' stuff with great results. Lark.

[308Nut]

Lark,

 

Before the long range rage, when I started learning the sport, I thought at the time that the Hornady BTSP interlocks were the best thing going. The 100 grain 6mm, 162 7mm and 190 .30 cal had reasonable BCs for that generation and they shot very accurately. I had no problems shooting the 100 grain 6mm to 900 yards. 1/2 MOA from 100-900 consistently. Ballistic tips were just starting to come out and they instantly became the rage. I'd take a Hornady BTSP over a ballistic tip any day. Granted, this is a Berger thread but you have good and valid points there sir. I do toy around with Bergers now and then but I've had much better success on paper with others which also happened to perform adequately on game. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

[GreatWhiteBuffalo]

I was of the understanding that the VLD hunters were supposed to retain their mass and not explode on impact. They are supposed to penetrate and not disintegrate. Hitting bone is a much better shot than a double lung.

 

I shoot the 140VLD from my 6.5-.284 and have dropped 3 bulls with it. One went completly thru the spine @ 420yds, the last went thru both shoulders @ 517yds. Recovered both bullets.

[wildwoody]

Barns here..

[lionhunter]

I load the nosler accubond in 300 wsm 300 win, 25-06 , and 270 wsm they have never let me down

Good luck

[ctafoya]

The deers my wife and I killed a few years ago were clean through. 300 WSM 168 grain at 316 and 336 yards. My oldest shot his bull last year with the same gun at 100 yards. Bullet hit a rib and turned into a claymore. Lungs turned to liquid.

 

Second oldest shot his javelina at 20 yards with his 308 168 nosler Ballistic tips. Looked like a softball went through it.

 

Youngest shot his with my 243 95 grain hornady sst at 50 yards and looked the same as the nosler.

 

Bergers are great, but they do seem like if you don't hit bone they just pass on through.

[STOMP442]

Stomp you a prostaff for berger or what? Lol. My 338 shoots nosler and hornady better then the berger by far. Berger open up my group almost 1.5" more. Every gun is different and has different purposes. Joel you just need to oit the big boy pants on give thay gun to the wife and join the magnum club lol

 

I'm no pro staffer by any means, but I have been using Bergers since before they started making different jackets for their Match and Hunting applications and have had nothing but outstanding results with them. It's true some rifles just don't seem to like them and that is unfortunate because by using a different bullet I feel you are leaving a lot on the table in the way of retained energy and wind drift. In todays world this is not as big of a deal as there are finally other bullets of similar performance to choose from. As far as the Hornady bullets go I will say they have really stepped up their game as far as uniformity and consistency goes. There was a time about 10 years ago I could find as much as 2 grains difference in weights among bullets in the same box and most weighing within one grain of what was actually written on the box. I found them to be way too inconsistent to my liking and why to this day I will only use an interlock or SST for break-in only.

[nw07heavy]

Many of the Berger hunting bullets were 'slumping' (deforming on acceleration) when fired in some of the 'super' magnums with hot (read: fast) loads, so Berger needed to strengthen the jackets on many bullets, or face deformation and destruction of the projectile. Although this helped keep the bullet intact during acceleration the heavier jackets did not allow for quick expansion on low powered cartridges. Example: A .308" heavy jacket bullet fit for a very fast long range .300 RUM will be a bad match for a very slow 30-06. Selecting a hunting bullet is sometimes a tough choice especially when trying to decide on target distance, target toughness (animal tissue vs. animal bone hit), and target mass. Bullet selection can be a 'bear'. Some hunters opt for a fast expanding bullet (to cause fast killing damage) which will ultimately dependably stop expansion and weight loss (in a bone hit) such as a Nosler Partition (or A-Frame in a heavy dangerous animal), which may be a good choice for many cartridges of varied velocities (or hits at much varied ranges). Some manufacturers such as Hawk Bullets allow you to select the specific bullet jacket thickness, and consequent expansion characteristics, for any of their bullets. This is to accommodate all the expansion and expansion control needed for any specific bullet and hunting application. You just need to know what you need, based upon your past experience.

[WampusCat]

In these scenarios it's easy to wonder if a different point of impact would have yielded different results.

 

It is important to remember that these animals we shoot at are less than ideal target mediums. Soo many variables as to effect the terminal performance. Hitting a rib on the entrance, a shoulder blade, a spine, a rib on the exit, a particularly tough tendon or sinew, or simply passing through hitting nothing but guts will have vastly different results on the projectile and associated wound channel.

 

It is also important to understand the mechanics of the bullet you choose. The Bergers are a basic cup and core bullet. A thin jacket cup is filled with lead and the open tip is swaged shut to form an aerodynamic shape. The hollow point in the tip is simply a by product of the manufacturing. At no point are they "bonded", "interlocked", or "corelokt". This old technology doesn't lend itself to beautiful mushrooms and they generally come apart dramatically after entering the target a couple inches if/when the velocity is adequate. It is old technology but still works if you understand its limitations.

 

Many times in situations we use Bergers (heavy for caliber, long range scenarios) the bullet passes through its target while it is still expanding/coming apart. There seems to be a happy medium. Too close and the bullet quickly and violently expands without the desired penetration and too far (lack of velocity) the bullet pencils through potentially breaking the tip off as it tumbles (heavier base upsets the hollow nose).

 

Berger has always been a match/target bullet maker. It was by coincidence that hunters seeking their accurate bullets discovered their effective terminal performance. Berger recognized it and eventually marketed the original version as "hunting" after developing the "target" line with a thicker jacket to deal with issues mentioned earlier.

 

Shoot what you like but understand its limitations.

 

I have had great success with the Bergers and AMAXs but I am also exited for the ELD-X to come out!