sportsmanship

[devinv]

On one hand, 4point has been hunting this area so long, 13 years? What if he had started putting salt out this long, I don't think it entitles him year after year exclusive rights, if he has a tag. Yet, like he said, the area sounds easyisly accessible so come hunt time, there are probably several other hunters who will be in there. Doesn't seem like a honeyhole after all. I'd put in a little more scouting time and find somewhere more remote where you have less chance of stepping on somebody elses toes or any encounters.

[tjhunt2]

I have been putting salt out for many years. Sounds to me like you have talked to this person and he doesn't want you to hunt it. No brainer here, don't hunt it. Have I hunted other salt licks I've found, you bet and I have walked in to mine and found hunters actually in my tree stands. Just because a person has a salt lick out doesn't mean he owns the woods but I would respect his territory if he is hunting it and find another spot. Let him know you won't mess with it and I have found most times they will say go ahead and hunt it as long as I'm not there. I have actually told the person in my treestand to go ahead and hunt the morning out in it but also told them I expect to be hunting there the rest of the season. Boy, do they get a surprise to find your not mad and you say good luck and walk away. Yes, I might be disappointed but I have found it's better to not make a hassle out of it and go to my back up spot. More than likely they offer to get out. If it is your only spot then politely tell them they can stay in your stand but you will have to remove the steps so you can use them on your other spot. There is plenty of woods so go build your own honey hole and expect someone to find it because they will. The one thing that will T me off is the bum that steals my salt block. That's another story.

[m77]

On your topic of SPORTSMANSHIP, it is ILLEGAL to place a salt lick on Public Land. The ethics of this topic went out the door with the first hunter placing the salt lick (period). End of that discussion. The other interesting topic of tree stands placed at water holes. It is also ILLEGAL to leave a tree stand unattended, over night or permantly attached to a tree on Public Land. If we all want to be ethical hunters then we should all follow the rules and laws established by the game & fish.

[tjhunt2]

m77, I will agree with the permanitly attached tree stands but that's it. Are you talking about Arizona? You aren't the only one who thinks that way I'm sure. Where is this in writing so I can catch up on the rules. Maybe it's me who is the unethical hunter in the woods but I don't think so. Thanks for your opinion and looking forward to reading where the law is written.

TJ

[m77]

TJ, the treestand issue is not as cut and dry as I had thought. I have been researching for a rule or law and only find statements that game & fish has put into their publications. So I did what any ethical hunter would do, I called game & fish. Twice to see if their answers varied, and they do vary. So, more research must be done. The number one thing that the game and fish could hang a person on is DID YOU DAMAGE THE TREE IN ANY WAY WITH YOUR TREESTAND!!!! If so, you can expect a fine, even if it's not your treestand your hunting in. (A.R.S 13-1601 through 1605) Speaking of hunting in another hunters treestand. On public land an unattended treestand is Public Domain. If the other hunter likes your stand, he may take it with him, it's no longer your stand. I would guess that's the same with trailcams??? Again, I also need to find the specific ruling on Public Domain.

 

Also, concerning baiting (salt licks). It is illegal to bait bear in the state of Arizona. So, if your salt lick attracts bear it is illegal. How many times have we seen those fantastic trailcam photos of bear coming into a hunters salt lick???? So, I quess if we want Arizona to start looking like Texas, we can all start putting out the time controlled corn feeders as long as they don't attract bears. Just don't get upset when another hunter considers it Public Domain.

[DesertBull]

There is plenty of woods so go build your own honey hole and expect someone to find it because they will. The one thing that will tick me off is the bum that steals my salt block. That's another story.

 

 

Ya mean like this dill hole. That's my salt in his hand.

Hey DILL HOLE, you owe me $2.47.

 

[.270]

allright, my 2 favorite subjects, bait and ethics. and i'm kinda thinkin' it is ok in Az. to put out salt. i know it dang sure is legal for cowboys to do it. why not hunters? i'm thinking the rules concerning treestands are in the forest circus and burro of land mismanagement's jurisdiction. seen' as how they govern the tree rules. i did read awhile back that there was some discussion about outlawing salt again, but have never heard that it was reinstituted. used to be agin the law to put out anything to attract game. but i'm pretty sure it is legal to put out salt now. somebody correct me if i'm wrong. and i think there isn't a written rule about it. it's one of those things that doesn't have a specific rule against it, therefore it is ok. as far as this case, if you came up on a camp on public land and nobody happened to be there at the time, would you just move into their tent? or maybe set your tent up a foot away from the one already there? i mean it is public land and all. what about if you hiked into a fishin' hole and there was already a guy with his line in the water where you wanted to fish? you gonna toss yours in the same hole? or maybe walk around the other side and give the guy some space? as for me, i could never be comfortable sittin' somebody else's bait. as far as that goes, i wouldn't be too comfortable on my own bait. don't prefer to hunt that way. but if some guy has spent the time for a matter of several years, he sorta has some rights, it seems to me. even if there is no law that is specified here. this kinda stuff is exactly why bear baiting was outlawed. it was just a matter of time before someone got shot over a bear bait arguement. if the guy that originally set this place up feels infringed upon enough, what's gonna happen if you have a cnofrontation? a couple gallons of pool chlorine on the salt will pretty much ruin the place and a well placed rock will pretty much take care of a camera. then nobody can use it and you can go do the work to make your own lick and always know there is guy out there that really, really don't like ya. and he might be some banjo pickin' hillbilly (no offense casey) that don't have any "ethics" when it comes to folks or farm animals. to me, i'd never feel good about using something that someone else did all the work to establish and if i did kill something over it, it would never feel right and i'd always know that somebody else did all the work and i got the credit. and i'd be afraid of the guy comin' along while i was there and whoppin' a knot on my head that a calf could suck and burnin' my truck and takin' my shoes away and makin' me walk about bare foot and stuff. so to sum up my "opinion", do the right thing and pack up and go someplace else and leave the place alone that this other fellow hunter has spent all the time and work and money to establish and instead of makin' an enemy you might make a friend. and there ain't much worth more than a friend. Lark.

[GameHauler]

The laws says you may not knowingly harvest a bear over bait

As far as treestands

the Forest service has a law that was put into affect years ago called Spiking

Tree hugers of sort who did not like the logging going on would drive spikes into trees to damage the loggers equipment

The use of a removable device in a tree is allowed

Tree steps, Lantern hangers are legal "(period)"

Mike

[GameHauler]

As far as salt I know that the Forrest service puts out salt for the animals "(period)"

[Outdoor Writer]

First, it is quite LEGAL -- at least for now -- to use salt, corn or other feed on either public or private land in AZ to attract deer. You guys can argue among yourselves as to it being ethical or not.

 

In regards to bear baiting, the exact rules from the 2007/2008 regs:

 

Under the Bear Permit list:

 

1. No person shall KNOWINGLY use any substance

as bait at any time to attract or take bear.

 

In the Rules section under R12-4-303 - Unlawful Devices, Methods, and Ammunition

 

An individual shall not place substances in a manner

INTENDED to attract bears.

 

So... because these sound somewhat ambiguous, I called Bryan Wakeling just now for clarification. Everything depends on INTENT, according to him. For example, if a guy is sitting over a salt block during the Dec. Coues hunt and a bear wanders in, the hunter's INTENT is not to attract a bear, and a wildlife officer would consider that 1) there is no bear season open 2)the hunter doesn't possess a valid bear tag but does possess a deer tag for that unit.

 

Of course, if the guy actually shoots at the bear, he'll be in deep dodo. -TONY

[GameHauler]

Thanks Tony for posting the exact law

"(period)"

[tjhunt2]

There is plenty of woods so go build your own honey hole and expect someone to find it because they will. The one thing that will tick me off is the bum that steals my salt block. That's another story.

 

 

Ya mean like this dill hole. That's my salt in his hand.

Hey DILL HOLE, you owe me $2.47.

 

To bad you didn't get his face to post. Try Walmart, $1.88 for the brick.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Well.... I love it when some one opens there mouth and Lark sticks his foot in there for'em to taste!! Well put Lark! ... and GH.... and TJ..... and Tony!

 

Now...... Back to the original topic. I am thinkin' that you might try moving another 1/4 mile up the trail (or more) and pick a new spot to do your hunting. I have had plenty of guys move in on me and spots that I have hunted for years.... It is really disheartening to feel presure from other guys that want to set up Right on top of you. It really doesn't matter if you hunt close to his lick or not..... but to hunt On his lick would be rude.

Another member of this site had a very well established lick with a stand on it, but because he lived an hour and a half away he did not hunt it as much as we do.... so knowing that it was an area that we wanted to hunt we went a bit further down the ridge set a stand and killed two bucks in two days there...... that other member can chime up if he wishes, but we are friends today, in part because of hunter courtesy. We respected his space. We all own the forests, hence the "Public Land" term, but there is enough to go around people just need to respect personal space and the effort that someone else has put forth.

 

CnS

[Outdoor Writer]

The following are the only comments AZ G&F makes in regards to treestands. Note that the department actually has NO enforcible rules as far as regulating their use. Instead, it will depend on the agency -- BLM, state or USFS -- that oversees the land you're hunting on. Also, in reference to "permanent;" this doesn't mean leaving a portable stand overnight or even over several days. It refers to constructing something permanently, ala a wooden nailed platform or even a ground blind that isn't removed on a timely basis. -TONY

 

 

Tree Stands and Blinds

 

Tree stands and blinds can be effective and

perfectly legal tools to aid in the taking of

wildlife. However, please take into consideration

the following before hanging a tree

stand or setting a blind:

 

• It may be unlawful to cut any trees or

branches while hanging tree stands or setting

blinds.

• It may be unlawful to leave tree stands

hanging or blinds set for extended periods

of time. They may be considered abandoned

property and subject to seizure.

• Construction of permanent tree stands or

blinds on public lands is unlawful without

appropriate authorization.

• It may be unlawful to pound climbing

spikes or attach anything that penetrates

the surface of a tree causing permanent

injury or scarring.

• Placement of tree stands or blinds on

public property does not give a person

ownership of that area. First come — first

serve is common courtesy that should be

used when more than one person wants to

hunt the same area (or waterhole).

Sportsmen are advised to be responsible when

using tree stands or blinds, and check with the

appropriate land management agency regarding

use and/or restrictions.

[DesertBull]

Must of changed recently, because I remember not too long ago that the rules for bear baiting stations were printed in the G&F fall regulations. It went into detail about what could be used for bait, how the bait station was to contructed, etc. It was legal to bait bears if the G&F decided to allow it, but they never did.

 

I think it is still that way right? It is a G&F rule that no baiting for bears is allowed, but it is not a state law. If the G&F wanted to, they could allow bear baiting, without going to the legislature for a new law.