sportsmanship

[.270]

bear baiting was outlawed probably about 15 years. maybe even longer than that. i don't recall it ever being legal in the spring, just the fall. for years and years, there wasn't even a spring hunt, but i don't ever recall it being legal in the spring. as far back as i can remember you couldn't even use dogs on the spring hunt. for years bear baiting wasn't hardly even regulated. just needed a bear tag. find a place, bait it up. had to be biodegradable, that was about it as far as rules. then they made a bear baiting season. every year there would be more rules. you couldn't start baiting until so many days before the season. then you had to get a permit and get all registered up with the azgfd and had to mark your bait somehow or another and you couldn't bait within so many feet of another bait. you had to use some kind of removable recepticle for the bait, like a barrel, and it could only be so big. a lot of people had gotten completely stupid in there practices(i won't say unethical, because it was legal) and i do recall the bunny sherrifs being concerned with litigation in other states about bear baiting and bear hunting in general but from what i recall, there was so much competition and fighting over bait stands and stuff, the azgfd was literally afraid someone was gonna get shot over it. i know of several knock down drag out fistfights and knifed tires and stuff over guys setting up bait 50 feet from an established sight, guys dumping cayenne pepper all over someones active bait in order to entice the bear to their bait, etc. it got to be a real zoo. i'm glad i can say i never baited in a bear. there ain't nothin' sadder to me than these jokers in a tree stand shootin' some poor old fat gargage addicted bear. but i digress, if some feller beat ya there, go some place else. the neatest thing about Az. is that it has millions of acres of public land that anyone can hunt. if some hillbilly has done staked out an acre, leave him alone and go find another place a mile or so away. Lark.

[Outdoor Writer]

Lark,

 

You are correct on the baiting being legal for the fall season only, and I had meant to word it that way. My bad.

 

The rest about the reason for making it illegal was correct, though. The department realized that an attempt to close the fall season by the AR folks because of the baiting issue would jeopardize all bear hunting in the state, including the spring hunt, mainly because it was the latter that was targeted in other states. I believe bait ban here occured about 1992/93, right after Amendment 10, which banned spring, bait, and hound hunting of black bears, was passed in Colorado by a 70% to 30% vote. In 1994, the AR folks also had bear baiting and hound hunting of mountain lions banned in Oregon via Measure 18 with a 52% to 48% vote.

 

If the department was concerned about hunters fighting, it would make treestands and sitting over other water holes illegal, too. -TONY

[m77]

You are training them to come to a specific location with the intent of making a harvest. Members to this site have posted many times of the ethics of hunting and fair chase. Just doesn't seem right to set over a bait or a water hole. Those are every day needs necessary to their survival. Just my view. Thanks for getting all up in arms. I need to take more Mondays off from work.

 

Hope you have a successful hunt.

[Arizona Griz]

Getting back on topic, I believe the orginal poster said he was going to hunt the area like he always has for 13 years. Interesting that it has taken that long to find the salt but so be it. I personally know the person who started the salt and by leaving the calling card he obviously wants to let be known that he plans to hunt it like he has for the past 5+ years.

 

I have had the same type (treestand instead of salt) happen to me with a member of this site. I told him when I would be hunting it and any other time he was more than welcome to use the stand. It's that easy.

 

If he plans on hunting it then I would personally back out and give the area space it deserves.

 

Please DO NOT put in another salt in the vincinity. That goes without being said I hope.

[Outdoor Writer]

Lark,

 

Here's a refresher on when the spring season actually began here. This is a snippet from a bear hunting article I wrote in 1989. -TONY

 

****

 

Back then the White Mountain and San Carlos Apache Indian Reservations were the only two areas in the state where spring bear hunting seasons were open. The Arizona Game & Fish Department eventually authorized the first state-run season in 1985 and issued a total of 53 permits --- 50 in Hunt Unit 31 and three in Unit 35A. Due to a few freak storms that kept the animals holed up, no bears were taken during the initial hunt. The results were the same the following year. Finally, in 1987, after the game department increased the permits in Unit 31 to 100, six hunters took trophies.

 

For 1989, 100 permits will be available for Unit 28 (April 14-29 season) and three for Unit 35A (April 14-May 14 season). The hunting license and tag, including the special permit application fee, costs $28.50 for a resident and $208.50 for a non-resident.

 

The low success during the state hunt can probably be attributed to the fact that both baiting and the use of dogs are not allowed. Consequently, hunters must depend on the spot-and- stalk method of hunting, which requires lots of patience and good optics.

[tjhunt2]

Just my view. Thanks for getting all up in arms. I need to take more Mondays off from work.

 

Hope you have a successful hunt.

 

m77, you got the right to your opinion and thanks for bringing us up out of our chairs. One more question before I exit. You wouldn't mess with any salt you find since you think it is unethical or screw with any of our tree stands would you?

 

fourpoint, thanks for starting this topic. I couldn't wait to see what everyone was going to say after m77 unleashed.

 

TJ

[DesertBull]

What if you haul water to a dry tank and then shoot a bear that comes in to drink it? It that using a substance to attract and take a bear??

 

[Outdoor Writer]

What if you haul water to a dry tank and then shoot a bear that comes in to drink it? It that using a substance to attract and take a bear??

 

 

Only my guess, but I would probably say you'd be in a real gray area if it was done immediately before or during the bear season.

 

When I talked to Wakling this morning, I asked him what would happen if all baiting for deer was made illegal and someone sat over a salt block a rancher had left for his cattle. He said that it would be a judgement call by the wildlife officer as to citing the individual. But he also said it would be a tough prosecution to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the hunter had placed the block in the location. -TONY

[mattys281]

At one time or another I probably bashed bait hunting as being unethical. After all, what's so difficult about waiting over a pile of food, or water, or whatever attractant you prefer & waiting out an animal, right? WRONG! If I made such a statement, and I think I have, it was out of complete and total ignorance. This year, for the first time, I've tried planting some mineral blocks & even tried setting up a bait station for deer using apples & corn, in addition to the mineral block. AFter weeks of checking the trail cam & not getting much, this weekend I went out to check it again, and much to my elation, all the apples & half the corn were gone & I had almost 100 pictures! I don't think my feet hit the ground on the way home, I was so excited to go see all those deer pictures.

 

When I got home, I found most of the pictures were nothing more than an empty landscape shot with a seemingly magically shrinking pile of food. Turns out that the 12 or so pics I did have of the bait visitor revealed I was getting cleaned out by an incredibly fast moving (and now fat) ground squirrel.

 

The moral of the story is, dropping a bunch of food somewhere only gets you a lot of winged & rodent visitors. To run a site that gets a lot of hits from deer, bear, elk, or whatever you're after takes a heck of a lot of hard work. Especially if you want a site that's not going to be visited by other bipeds. I'm just a beginner at it, but my impression after the last couple months is that it may be a very effective way to get close to animals, but it is certainly not a cheap or easy way. It doesn't have to cost lots of dollars, but you're going to pay in sweat.

[AZcoues_addict]

Speaking of hunting in another hunters treestand. On public land an unattended treestand is Public Domain. If the other hunter likes your stand, he may take it with him, it's no longer your stand. I would guess that's the same with trailcams??? Again, I also need to find the specific ruling on Public Domain.

 

No more stealing trailcams!!! Ok, jk, but really, I believe you are incorrect on this as well. As far as the law goes and I understand it at least, you cannot take anything found worth more than $100 on public land or it is considered stealing. It has to be turned over to police and left for a grace period and the original owner to claim. If never claimed, then the finder can retrieve the item.

 

Also, I've never heard of a silent compound bow? Where can I buy one, because I paid way too much for the last top of the line bow I bought!

 

To the original post, if I'd hunted an area for that long I would continue to hunt it, but I'd never sit the salt unless given permission by the originator. I might start my own lick somewhere else or even a 1/4 mile away or so, or find a new spot, but I personally wouldn't hunt their lick. I agree with some others, water is a different story and first come first serve.

[mattys281]

No more stealing trailcams!!! I believe you are incorrect on this as well. As far as the law goes and I understand it at least, you cannot take anything found worth more than $100 on public land or it is considered stealing. It has to be turned over to police and left for a grace period and the original owner to claim. If never claimed, then the finder can retrieve the item.

 

 

No sense wasting your breath on that one. People that steal cameras, treestands, etc. don't give a crap about the law. I don't think one of them believes they're legally "claiming" abandoned property. They're stealing & they know it. They're either too lazy, cheap, & selfish to go get their own, or they're the self-appointed ethics police who believe that cameras give you an "unfair advantage" & they're going to teach you a lesson by taking or breaking it.

 

The way I look at it is that I work, have a family, & run my own small business. Although I'd love to spend weeks or even months in the woods scouting, realistically I'm only going to get a few weekends here & there before season opens. Those cams help me make the most of my limited time & resources. If someone takes them, they're nothing but a rotten thief & should be chased out of town via torch-light & pitch forks, like they deserve.

[m77]

TJ, no man, I don't f$@^ with other hunters. If I'm going back in a road and see another vehicle parked I just go back in farther. I do think that fourpoints has every right to go a mile or so back in on the trail and hunt in what ever manner he things is ethical to him, even if it is another salt block. heck, I might even give it a go. Does Boone and Crockett recognize that as fair chase????

 

By the way, I did call G&F and got two completely different answers this morning. It's good that Outdoor Writer has an inside line to MR. Wakling or we may have never solved this. Someday call G&F and ask your question to the first person that answers the phone, wait about a half hour call back and ask for customer service, ask again the same question, see what happens.

[Outdoor Writer]

Someday call G&F and ask your question to the first person that answers the phone, wait about a half hour call back and ask for customer service, ask again the same question, see what happens.

 

No wonder you get misinformation. That main number basically puts you in touch with a bunch of gals who don't have a clue. You don't need an "inside" contact to talk to knowledgeable folks at G&F. When you call, just be SPECIFIC and ask for the department -- i.e. big-game branch, fisheries, etc, -- that can best answer your questions or just ask to talk with a public information officer in I&E. Both Rory Aikens and Tom Cadden are good resources for accurate info.

 

And of course, it's always best to NOT start off with something like, "I know you guys don't have a clue about game management and are only concerned about making more money for new trucks, but can you answer a question for me?" -TONY

[Huntn coues]

The way I look at it is that I haul water during the dry months if needed. I keep a few sites loaded with salt and

minerals pretty much year round.

 

Now in that year there are a whole lotta different species of critters using the water and salts and if I am lucky I draw

a tag where these sites are and harvest one animal all the while providing nutrition for a whole bunch of others.

 

My .02

[DesertBull]

And of course, it's always best to NOT start off with something like, "I know you guys don't have a clue about game management and are only concerned about making more money for new trucks, but can you answer a question for me?" -TONY

 

 

Now I know why I always get "disconnected" when I call for advise!