IMMIGRATION BILL

[105Coues]

Napolitano actually signed an immigration bill that will actually help our country. Can you believe it? It is about time the legislature and her stepped up and made a positive change. Now if the "Its not fair" idiots will leave it alone so it can be enacted in Jan 08 and hopefully the wishy washy judges don't block it as they usually do when the people vote on something.

[TAM]

While Gov. Napalatano's intentions were good, this is not a good piece of legistaltion! It's conquences to Arizona and it's economy could be extremely negative. Even Napalatano pointed out many of is weaknesses and said she signed it to get attention from Washington. All she did was trade one set of problems for another, and in this case that could really hurt our struggling economy.

 

Why do we need more laws??? Why can't we just enforce the laws that we already have on the books???

 

If you take away the illegals in the Arizona work force today there won't be enough qualified and/or willing workers to get the job done. This will drive up the labor, trucking, farming, produce costs and drasticly inflate the prices for anything related to these industries. Not to mention put a lot of legitimate businesses out of business!

 

This could really hurt Arizona's economy.

 

Sometimes the simple solution is the best one.............. Enforce the laws that are already on the books, but on the other hand I've never known a liberal to turn down an opportunity to make new laws!!!!

 

I agree that something has to be done, but this is not the solution!

[Outdoor Writer]

Sometimes the simple solution is the best one.............. Enforce the laws that are already on the books, but on the other hand I've never known a liberal to turn down an opportunity to make new laws!!!!

 

Tam,

 

Everything you wrote was dead on until you got to the above. The bill was written and promoted by CONSERVATIVES, not liberals.

 

The governor had little choice but to sign it, given her prior comments on cracking down on employers, and the fact the bill's sponsors would have used any veto by the gov to burn her in the town square. -TONY

[TAM]

Tony, I'm well aware that the bill came from the conservitives. They're not perfect either. I personally think they played it right into her hands. Pretty much everyone agrees that something has to be done. I don't believe that going after the employers is the solution. Most of the employers are not "knowingly" hiring illegals anyway. The illegals have found ways to get fake documents and social security numbers to look legit. Fake documents only cost an illegal $100 bucks! You can't force the employers to police this issue, that's the governments job. This bill will undoubtedly put legitimate companies out of business and Arizona's economy will face severe inflation as a result. This is just bad legislation that pulls the strings of our over emotional public.

 

I still maintain that for this piece of legislation and all others like it that the first step is to enforce the laws that are already on the books! If those fail to solve the problem then we can create new laws. Arizona has not even made a small effort to enforce the current laws! Ok, perhaps Sherriff Joe has, but that's about it.

 

 

Simple solutions are almost always better than complex ones.

[Outdoor Writer]

Most of the employers are not "knowingly" hiring illegals anyway.

 

Oh come on. Let's get real here.

 

The article in yesterday's Republic quoted two illegals who are part of an 10-man concrete laying crew. One was the boss, and six others on the same crew are also illegals.

 

One member of this forum who no longer lives in AZ worked at a produce farm in Tolleson. One day he brought out about 8 of his workers to gather up some furniture, carpet, etc. that I was getting rid of. The only one who spoke any English was the head guy. Do you think the owner of that farm didn't know that most of his workers were illegals?

 

My son is a banquet manager at one of the Point resorts. Nearly every one of his set-up people are KNOWN illegals. All the contractors also know the status of those day workers they pick up at Home Depot each day. It's merely a case of the same 'don't ask, don't tell' policy the military uses.

 

The current problem: there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING now in place to deter the hiring of illegals, and if you think the miracle cure is enforcing the current laws by rounding up and deporting the 12 million illegals in this country, I have some beach-front property in Gila Bend to sell you. It will never happen because there isn't enough manpower, money and other resources to do that, and there never will be. That's especially true of space in Sheriff Joe's Tent City. The fact of the matter is simple: eliminate the jobs and the illegals either move to another state or go home to Mexico.

 

As for forged docs, that's an easy one; when an employer uses the database that's already in place, it must be set up to keep a record of the input information, including the employer's name or assigned number. Thus, if that employee later turns out to be an illegal with forged docs, the employer is off the hook because the database will show he checked the person on such & such a date. This will also take care of the small percentage of errors the database supposedly produces -- at least until it's up to snuff. Also, don't forget that forged docs will have to match-up with real ones now, i.e. a legit SSN AND NAME in the database. As a result, the forged docs can only mimic ones already in existence but belonging to someone else, which amounts to identity theft. That makes it a bit more difficult since the theft will pretty much have to be an Hispanic surname. As it is now with no checks in place, a forger simply creates an SSN with the illegal's real name as if he or she just got it. "Policing" employees will be no different than gun stores now do when clearing firearms sales through the database. Their only police job after that is to say to his potential employee, "Sorry, but your name and SSN is not in the database, so I can't put you to work." Any further policing is relegated to the authorities, just as you say.

 

I certainly agree that the law the gov signed is not perfect and needs much refining. If nothing else, it will surely get the attention of the pols in D.C., and as more states pass a hodgepodge of similar laws, perhaps Congress will finally act on something meaningful.-TONY

[105Coues]

Why do we need more laws??? Why can't we just enforce the laws that we already have on the books???

 

If you take away the illegals in the Arizona work force today there won't be enough qualified and/or willing workers to get the job done. This will drive up the labor, trucking, farming, produce costs and drasticly inflate the prices for anything related to these industries. Not to mention put a lot of legitimate businesses out of business!

 

This could really hurt Arizona's economy.

I cannot agree more with the fact we should have been enforcing the laws we have all along. However if that were the case, the 12 - 20 million illegals wouldn't be here, they would have been treated like the felons they are. Conspiracy to enter the US illegally is a felony.

 

I do not agree with the statement that it would put legitimate businessmen out of business due to the fact if they were law abiding they wouldn't be knowingly hiring them. I do agree that it would disrupt the economy but ultimately it would bring the jobs back to the American workers.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do not blame the illegals for the problem the US Govt. has created. They are just opportunists looking for free stuff and the US Govt. is offering. If you take away the illegal employment, Free housing, medical, food and education. Guess what, no more problem and the US can go back to granting citizenship to honest people who are willing to go through the process.

 

I know this bill isn't the whole fix but it will hold our employers of AZ accountable and hopefully encourage the feds to enforce some of the laws we already have. I doubt it though but we have to hope.

[jamaro]

CNN recently ran a report that 65% of all illegal day hires were by middle americans not willing to do there own work.... Most don't ask and don't get told.... It will be interesting to see what happens when all of this cheap underground labor is gone....

 

jason

[KGAINES]

When there are 10 guys with the same name and ssn and they all work for different companies the irs can figure out somethings up, is stealing a ssn a federal offense, if it is then the fbi can go check all of these guys and round up the 9 that are not who they say they are and they can check the tenth and see if it was stolen or given. Then if the employer rehires or finds a way to circumvent the system they should be punished, another thing to ask is will the laws only be enforced against businesses that Americans are willing to work at or are they going to bust the farmers who hire out to pick watermelons, onions, roses, and all the other jobs that Americans won't do. While their at it they should drug test all the people on welfare, don't pass don't get your check and food stamps, and were taking your kids, I have to pass a drug test to work and pay into the welfare system, plus take care of my own family. Another thing they can do is take all of these prisoners and make them take up the slack for the illegals that leave, oh wait we can't do that that would be against their civil rights and jesse and al would be out there protesting up a storm, plus we have to remember most of these low lifes are in prison because they didn't work in the first place, they just stole from us plus took welfare. If their are Mexicans out there willing to do work that Americans won't do, we should figure out a way to get them visas and allow them to work, allot the farmers a certain amount of visas yearly and allow them to hire needed laborers, I would bet they would rather have them working for them than some lazy convicts anyways. We have become a society of ceo's, everyone wants to be hired at the top, kids drop out of high school and think that 7 or 8 bucks an hour isn't worth working for, momma do this and mooma do that, they take from parents that either don't have it or are barely making it and assume that is the way it should be, or the best one is the ones who take from the parents that never had it and agree with the kids your right son they shouldn't require a drug test to be a truck driver, I mean you only smoke pot, and you only sold coke, you wouldn't have to if they would give you a job. This politically correct bullshit that we have been passing off for years now as the way we have to be, treat everybody good, don't say nothing bad is so much crap that it makes me want to puke, everyone has an excuse, race, gender, sexual orientation, where you grew up, no one wants to say I made the dang decision and I will live with it, I will do the best that I can and I will give my kids the chance to do better.

Sorry I was all over the place, but a lot of these issues piss me off. Sorry if I offended anyone

[KGAINES]

One other quick thing to add, if you are over here working on a visa, you can't have gov't. assistance, no welfare or food stamps, no medical care unless it is employee provided, you made the decision to come here and work, not me, I don't like helping the non workers here much less adding foriegn non workers. The gov't has the welfare system wrong, if you get a job and make 7 or 8 bucks an hour and keep your job they should help you out, if you sit at home and expect to get paid you shouldn't get a darn thing.

[az4life]

OMG... Janet Napoloreno signed a bill against Illegal immigration! It must be gonna Freeze in Phoenix this week.

 

He must hae had a n angle, Every politician does. I read that He She thinks it will fail to be enacted due to some BS MaryROseWilcox group filing challenges or some such crap.

 

I agree that we need to enforce the laws but to help speed the process, we also must go after the illegal employers. I believe there are more construction, maintenance, restaurant and hospitality businesses that hire the illegals fully knowing they are not legal to work than the ones who get "fooled". Forged documents are big business for sure. One illegal in court recently said he made $3,000,000.00 annually forging documents for illegals. At your estimate of $100 bucks each that is 30,000 illegals per year that he helped defraud the US government.

 

As far as prices going sky high, businesses folding up, and our economy falling apart, if we prevent businesses from hiring illegals, that is horsepuckey. I live in a state where gov't estimates and my observations show the illegal population is VERY small. I go to many towns and rarely hear another language at a restaurant or hotel, or on construction site. Sure, we have problems, like low unemployment, low job turnover, no state income taxes, lower prices for state services, and y'know what, we still have comparable prices at restaurants as phoenix. No $5 big macs or whppers and pretty good service overall too.... Legal immigrants learn and speak english, crime is low and most people care about their neighbors and community. I guess with these problems, We are getting by just fine. A walmart Distribution center opened recently here and hired like 600 -800 staff and I'd bet no illegals were hired to do the work.

 

Liberals want more taxes on the 10% top wage earners. They take that money and spread it out in entitlements and programs to the 60-70% who pay no taxes. People vote for so and so because he or she gave them a benefit or program. All they need is to keep the low wage earners happy and they stay in power essentially buying votes. Follow the money!

 

If you believe news from CNN you are "goose stepping" with the liberal communist socialist party line. Wake up and smell the coffee. do your research and see the slant on every story. Politicians are using this issue to further their own causes... staying in power. Democrats will tax the economy to death, republicans have no backbones and wimp out on any fight that could cost them a vote. They all want to bundle the issue up instead of taking on the problems one at a time as any sane person can see needs to be done.

 

Immigration steps, 1 by one - no package deal

 

1. Secure the borders. No hope until we stop the flood!

2 Enforce existing laws. Maybe you can't deport 12 million at once but you can do it 1 at a time! Find em, and send them back where they came from.

3. Prosecute employers who hire illegals. Simple- No jobs, they quit coming here, and go home if thye are already here.

4. Create a legal guest worker program to satisfy the needs created by the above.

[105Coues]

I agree he must have an angle because this signing is out of the norm for he/she.

 

You should see our Coolidge, AZ WALMART where everything over the PA system is in Spanish.

 

This whole thing is like putting a bird feeder on your porch and complaining about the birds. The problem is simple to fix once you look through all the bird crap. Get rid of the food. Unfortunately, we in the US(Politicians) are too worried about hurting someones feelings who isn't even a citizen to do anything about it.

[az4life]

Your bird feeder analogy is dead on!

[DesertBull]

Didn't the voters of AZ pass a proposition that required all state workers to turn in suspected Illegals when they applied for aid? I believe they did and Nappy refused to enforce it.

 

The sad thing is, the criminals are making it 100x harder on the ones that want to come here the legal way.

[az4life]

I read this today online. Just another example of what happens when the first crime is overlooked. (crossing the border illegally)

 

 

This time it happened in Columbia, Tennessee. Juan Villa has been in the Maury County jail 11 times. Charges? Let’s see ….. assault, public intoxication, driving without a license, contempt of court .. .the usual stuff. Eleven times since 2001. (still here illegally)

 

Juan’s last visit to the local hoosegow ended last Friday at about 9:45 p.m. Less than three hours later, just after midnight, Juan celebrated his freedom (a friend bailed him out) by raping a 15-year-old girl.

 

You know where this is going, don’t you? Yup … you got it. Juan is an illegal alien. Yeah .. the county authorities had notified the feds, but the feds were just too busy to do anything right away. They said they would deal with Juan later. Trouble is, Juan dealt with the 15-year-old before the feds could deal with him.

 

Well see how long Juan stays in jail this time. In the meantime, local illegal immigration advocates are voicing their concern. No .. not about Juan raping this girl, but about the fact that the Maury County Sheriff’s Department has detained about 80 illegal aliens since May. They’re yelling racial profiling.

 

And so it goes. The endless story.

 

Every illegal who is part of any crime while in the US illegally should be Deported and excluded from future entrance.

[DesertBull]

Every illegal who is part of any crime while in the US illegally should be Deported and excluded from future entrance.

 

 

They were part of a crime when they stepped over the border.