Archery 27????

[Becker]

This was one of the best years I have had for hunting elk. I saw more 350 plus Bulls than I have ever seen. We hunted in unit 1 for archery 9 days and then rolled into 27 to scout for and hunt the muzzleloader hunt. There were elk everywhere I looked. Bugling seemed normal to good for us. Just talked to a buddy of mine yesterday and he said the Bulls were still being pretty vocal!!!

 

I always like the sob story from alpinebullwinkle. Sounds like to him the elk herd is about on the verge of dissapearing and the Rut is non existent........where as my crew sees and has some of the best elk hunts of their lives?????

[Coues79]

It's been very quiet on the neighboring unit in New Mexico close to the az nm border. I was in unit one this past weekend and it was insane full on rut where I was at.

 

I have heard of a guy that had a 27 archery hunt that did have a very very difficult time.

 

September was difficult in places for rutting from what I heard and saw the few times I was out and was hit or miss from those I've talked to that had hunts. If you can find a decent herd of cows in September the odds are you'll have some action in bugling Bulls at least in the mornings.

 

I wouldn't say alpinebullwinkle is crying about anything. I take value in the word of those that spend a lot of time in the unit and have seen the years go by with the ups and downs of the unit. I don't get what he'd have to gain or lose by making false claims about it.

[Notime2hunt]

he'll gain us not putting in for the unit and him with better odds

[Str8Shot]

This is why they were proposing to move the archery hunt back a couple weeks ( more in line with the Rut ) , something archery guys have been complaining about for the last decade it seems... but The stick and string guys want it all, no Muzzy or rifle Hunts before and First crack during the Rut... Some time you have tough Hunts , get over it , at least you had a tag in hand!

[BAG'N'TAG]

I hunted 27 during the early archery hunt and it was tough. Wasn't easy to call a big bull in (it never is) but even harder on this hunt. Seemed like it was still very pre-rut in most the areas I hunted. The bulls wouldn't bugle very long after sunrise and were not very aggressive. I saw on three different occasions were the herd bull didn't even pay attention to the satellite bull trying to move in on his herd or a single bull passing thru the area.

[Becker]

Coues79. I also appreciate what people have to say when they spend countless hours in the hills. My major problem is having the actual facts behind the claims. I have seen countless posts about the elk numbers being so dismal and have asked alpinebullwinkle for the proof. Like "hard evidence". Surveys. Actual counts. What if he doesn't even have binoculars???? People have been complaining about the deer numbers, amount of hunters, etc. in the unit I like to hunt deer in and I have had some of the best deer hunting of my life finding more and bigger deer than ever before.

 

There is constant change in the hills. Look at what the fire has done to those units. So just because you don't see 100 elk out in the meadow in the evening anymore doesn't mean there isn't 100 elk up on the hillside. I have been approached by hunters on these early hunts who haven't seen a single elk while I am looking at 50 spread out on the ridge across from us while we are chatting. We killed on the third day of the muzzleloader hunt this year in 27 and in my opinion the rut was just getting going, while mentioned above some think it was over already???

 

A year or so ago I sat on a little knob that has country laid out in front of it with my hunting buddy and we glassed up 23 coues bucks in a matter of 3 hours. 23!!! We have been back there many times and the most I think I have ever seen again is 5. I am sure there are still the 23 and then some more that we missed but I am not seeing them from that particular vantage point.

 

My case is.....even myself, doing the same thing, I experience different results in numbers seen. Sure, over long periods of time you are going to come up with an average or feel for what is there. I have seen "spots" peak and decline and peak again. What happens if over the next 5 years a group of guys stumbles on the spot and hunts it hard shooting 3 to 5 bucks out of there a year. Am I going to see the same results as I did before they moved in. Or perhaps someone is already hunting it hard and then they decide to move spots or units. What will I see the next few years.

 

What if those elk hunters that struggled only spent one day in a particular area that had the elk bumped, and the day after they left, those bulls fired back up. And what if that happened to them over and over through the course of the entire hunt. I have been there and done that although I didn't leave. I have seen elk get bumped and get quiet for a day or two and then get so fired up you can't decide which bugle to chase.

 

Now I don't pay much attention to what our actual elk numbers are. But based on some general knowledge and seeing some of the tag numbers it seems to me that "YES" our Game and Fish is bumping the numbers back. Good or bad whatever we could argue all day about that.

 

Based on who draws tags, weather conditions, food, ???wolf activity???, fires, you name it, things are going to change. Does that mean that the rut was terrible and elk numbers are dismal......NO. IMHO without a solid scientific method and hard numbers with the proper equipment to do it I have a hard time believing "one opinion" on some of the above to be true based on what I did/saw this early elk season and those in the previous 8 years.

[twowindy]

Human pressure is probably more to blame than elk numbers.The elk are still there.It seams like every year you have to get farther into the back country to find good bulls.

[BeardownAZ]

My dad had the September rifle hunt last year in 27 and they rutted on and off but definetly not hard. It was more like a late November tag without the cold and an occasional bugle. But in Unit 1, they were going nuts. Really strange. It also rained non stop for 5 day of the hunt to so that didn't help either.

[WHT_MTNMAN]

I predicted a slow rut with less bugling. When you have water everywhere elk can be very spread out, IMO this makes it easier for those that glass but tough on those that "chase" bugles. The days that you get bulls bugling non stop is when you have a larger concentration of bulls around a hot cow. When water and feed is everywhere you don't get the same competition.

[creed_az_88]

Did you kill a bull Becker?

[Becker]

I did not. My wife had the unit 1 archery tag and my hunting buddy had the muzzy 27 tag. I posted their results already 😊

[Alpinebullwinkle]

While spending some time in my “oval office” the other day I happened to pick up an old edition of the Arizona Elk Society Tracker publication, Spring 2007. Ironically on page 5 I found the following comments by John Koleszar from his In the Crosshairs:Politics ’07 article. “The Arizona Game & Fish Department has reduced the elk herd by almost 50% over the past 10 years. The reason for some of that reduction can be traced to the drought of course, but also to what Commissioner Hernbrode calls the “political carrying capacity” of elk. Ranchers have their grazing problems, small rural towns see crop damage and the cry throughout those areas was “too many dang elk”. The resulting decline in the overall population of elk can be traced to pressure that is exerted by many folks whose interests are not in line with ours. Thank goodness that Ron Eichelberger and Steve Clark started confronting the Commission and the Department on those numbers”.

 

The above is exactly what I have been expressing in numerous posts which Becker, a personally admitted 9-year hunter of Unit #27, likes to challenge. I don’t have a problem with challenges if they come from credible sources and do not become personal. Unfortunately, Becker seems to enjoy making (Obama like) divisive challenges that are counter productive to those wishing to make constructive posts. I share this at this time since the 2016 application window for elk hunters has passed, and I shouldn’t be criticized by Becker again (hopefully) for trying to dissuade hunters from Unit #27 opportunities.

 

You’ll notice I did not initiate this thread, and with the timing of this response (post application period) hopefully some viewers will recognize my previous posts have been meant to be constructive, rather than an attempt to sway applicants a different direction. Becker’s critical misquotes coming from his admitted 9 years of experience in Unit #27 (challenging +45 years of numerous key performance indicators/experience) are laughable, even though he will occasionally post something of substance that I agree with. Bottom line, his exaggerated (Obama like) and divisive misquotes are not appreciated!

 

I still stand by previously expressed opinion that the Unit #27 elk herd is down approximately 50% from its peak herd size about 1999. September elk hunting experiences have been affected proportionately. However, this does not mean that I think “elk herds are dismal” or “on the verge of disappearing”, or “I don’t have the facts”, as Becker likes to misquote me in his personal attacks. Apparently from this thread, and the John Koleszar article referenced above, many others share my sentiment.

[trphyhntr]

Cliffs notes?

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

Are those the cliffs where the elk live that he's trying to keep us from hunting?

[Becker]

Some Published INFO?!?!?! I can go check it out. Thank you Alpinebullwinkle!!! I am sorry that I do not believe everything I read/see on the Internet. I have simply asked multiple times for some proof and that was all. I don't have the time or need/want to go dive in and find info about elk numbers myself. With you being so In tune to that I figured you would be able to put me right on the goods. My last posts under this topic are a bit harsh. My apologies. I truly am asking you for the data so I can look at it. I'll quit harassing you!

 

I still believe that 27 and 1 are some of the best elk hunts there are!

 

On a side note I had the late November 27 rifle bull elk tag this last fall. The first day myself/brother-in-law/and hunting buddy glassed up 35 bulls. The second day We saw 46 or 47bulls. Killed on the third morning.