No Guide Fees

[Flatlander]

Thanks for jumping in Travis. So if it's open for all hunts in all units is there anything preventing a NR from waiting till he has max points and then buying in for just that year? Seems like a guy could game the system.

[cactusbull]

Yes that is correct. Your guide benefit for the first year would be a 5 day fully guided hunt for 350.00 bucks.

[cactusbull]

You could wait until you had max points and then sign up, however by doing so you will pay more for a membership 10 or 15 years down the road and more importantly only receive A 5 day fully guided hunt as your benefit compared to a 10 or 14 day fully guided hunt. In other words the longer your a ZGF member the more guided days you accumulate and the greater your benefit becomes. So it would be more advantageous to enroll sooner rather than later.

[WhtMtnHunter]

This is an interesting concept. My only question is are you bonded? And for how much? Meaning if, in 10 or 15 years, you decide not to do it anymore for any reason, or you sell the business to someone else, or god forbid you pass away, will those who have paid in for several years be able to get all their money back? A performance/indemnity bond might cover this contingency. Just curious, good luck with your venture.

[cactusbull]

We are looking into the bonding portion of it right now. And yes if for any reason we were not able to provide the guiding would be willing to reimburse enrollment cost. In the future we are planning to expand in more states and more Outfitters to give are members more choices.

[khmer6]

Thanks for the clarification. Neat idea for sure. Love it when people come out and explain things and reach out to the community they are tailoring to. I hope it works out well and drums up business for your team and Arizona as a whole. Money into our economy is always welcome :-D

[SirRoyal]

Travis shared this ZGF with me over a year ago!

And I was blown away. It's an awesome concept that has evolved into a great business plan where everybody wins .

I will share this with my non-resident friends for sure!

[Ohthatguy]

On 8/27/2015 at 10:10 AM, cactusbull said:

Hi Guys - This is Travis McClendon owner of Arizona Elk Outfitters LLC & Arizona Strip LLC and creator of Zero Guide Fees LLC. I want to say thanks for all the interest into our new program and welcome any and all questions that you might have. Many hunters cannot afford a $6000.00 hunt and I wanted to create something that was inclusive to everybody and not just the upper class. So 4 years ago I started working on a concept that has never been seen in our industry & just launched it before the deer deadline. I understand it is not common knowledge and may seem foreign to many people but as more people understand how the process works I believe this will become a viable option and a new generation of outfitting will be born. If you remember It was also foreign and people were skeptical before USO, HUNTIN FOOL & CABALAS TAGS starting their application services but know it is common knowledge and thousands of people use those services every year.

 

I would like to respond and also explain a little about exactly what Zero Guide Fees is.

 

First of all we are not a gimmick! I have been outfitting in Arizona for over 25 years and have worked tirelessly to strive to be the best and build a solid reputation while doing it. Our companies have harvested hundreds of quality animals over the years and have had the privilege of harvesting several world records. I say this only to legitimize who we are and what we are offering. I understand that if we are providing a service for free but are not legit then there is no value in it.

 

We cover far more than just the Arizona Strip for deer in fact we cover all the sheep and antelope units and have 15 to 20 units for the elk. A non resident could easily draw 5B North archery elk tag with 6 points or a unit 10 late rifle elk tag with 8 points so its not just the most difficult or hardest units to draw. Also with the possible new changes for non residents they actually have a chance of drawing places like the strip or early rifle 10 tags when before they would have no chance unless they had max points.

 

Yes, you can draw in the first year and we will guide you . We have 4 members that drew in 2015 and all they had to pay was the $350.00. it is advantages to become a ZGF member sooner rather than later since our system is designed to give you more benefit the longer you wait.

 

Here is the benefit breakdown

• Draw in 1st to 3rd year = 5 day fully guided hunt
• Draw in 4th to 7th year = 7 day fully guided hunt
• Draw in 8th to 10th year = 10 day fully guided hunt
• Draw in 11th to 13th year = 14 day fully guided hunt

Is it worth it?

 

Example:

Lets look at a 5 & 10 year wait to draw since that was mentioned earlier

• 5 x $350.00 = $1750.00 (total investment) = Benefit 7 Day Fully Guided Hunt (Traditional 7 day fully guided hunt in 5 years $6500 - $7500.00?) YOU SAVE at least $4500.00
• 10 x $350.00 = $3500.00 (total investment) = Benefit 10 Days Fully Guided hunt (traditional 10 day guided hunt in 10 years $9000.00 - $11,000.00?) SAVINGS around $6000.00
• You basically only pay $1750.00 for a 7 day fully guided hunt & $3500.00 for a 10 day fully guided hunt and that is 5 to 10 years in the future. You would be hard pressed to find that price with reputable outfitters 10 years ago let alone 10 years down the road.

What are the other benefits?

• Unlike guide fees that will keep increasing year after year because of gas, food, licenses permits and insurance cost, however your $350.00 never goes up until you draw.
• Pay as you go, not all at once.
• Recession Proof: If you lose your job have a financial emergency or the market tanks you wont be spending $6000.00 for a guided hunt but with ZGF, your hunt is already covered

We are planning on opening it up to RESIDENTS also but it will be very limited and the units will be filtered however as we grow we will allow for more residents to enter.

 

NOTE: The new ArizonaElkOutfitters.com site with the ZGF will be live in the next two weeks.

 

I look forward to hearing from you and please let me know if you have any other questions about this option. Thanks Travis

 

 

 

For anyone thinking of this program as I was, check the current details because THIS IS NOT what you will receive now. If I draw 13B archery next year, I will still be paying thousands of dollars for them to guide me. I'm sure I understand why it changed but the program that was advertised and sold for years is NOT what you will get now.  I was going to sign up and found out the truth so no thanks.  Maybe you need to drop the Zero Guide Fees name too.. Or add "Possibly" to it.

[forepaw]

23 hours ago, Ohthatguy said:

For anyone thinking of this program as I was, check the current details because THIS IS NOT what you will receive now. If I draw 13B archery next year, I will still be paying thousands of dollars for them to guide me. I'm sure I understand why it changed but the program that was advertised and sold for years is NOT what you will get now.  I was going to sign up and found out the truth so no thanks.  Maybe you need to drop the Zero Guide Fees name too.. Or add "Possibly" to it.

That's interesting.  Care to enlighten us?  I have contracted with ZGF for one hunt, may do so again, but definitely want to find out what I need to beware of.

Thanks.

forepaw

 

 

[Ohthatguy]

1 hour ago, forepaw said:

That's interesting.  Care to enlighten us?  I have contracted with ZGF for one hunt, may do so again, but definitely want to find out what I need to beware of.

Thanks.

forepaw

 

 

As I see it, they are trying to average out the number of years someone must be a member before they are likely to draw. Basically, with the old system, every max point holder could sign up the year before, get a tag and then be guided for the 175.00/350.00. How they didn't foresee this issue is beyond me.  Maybe they knew it but just used it as a "promotional" campaign or maybe they simply expected more people to sign up that wouldn't draw each year. It's simple math for figure out what their "nut" is each year/member but Travis would be the one to answer that.

Either way, now they factor in your bonus points and the unit. Zero or few points and a premium unit gets you the biggest benefit. Higher bonus points and easy to draw units get you a discount of XX%, but ZERO it's not.

 

If I draw a resident 7W Archery Elk tag in 2019 with my 8 points, I still have to pay them 3,000.00 for a 5 day outfitted or 7 day guided only hunt. 

If I draw the same tag with 0 points, I still pay them 1,500.00 for the 5 day outfitted. 

If I draw a unit 10 Early Archery Bull tag with 8 points, I still pay 2,000.00 for the base 5 day outfitted package.

If I draw the same tag with 0 points, they cover the entire 4,500.00

 

It all makes sense and I was going to do exactly what they are trying to prevent, sign up the year before you are almost 100% to draw and then get a cheap guide. 

 

[codyhuntsaz]

11 minutes ago, Ohthatguy said:

As I see it, they are trying to average out the number of years someone must be a member before they are likely to draw. Basically, with the old system, every max point holder could sign up the year before, get a tag and then be guided for the 175.00/350.00. How they didn't foresee this issue is beyond me.  Maybe they knew it but just used it as a "promotional" campaign. Travis would be the one to answer that.

Either way, now they factor in your bonus points and the unit. Zero or few points and a premium unit gets you the biggest benefit. Higher bonus points and easy to draw units get you a discount of XX%, but ZERO it's not.

 

If I draw a resident 7W Archery Elk tag in 2019 with my 8 points, I still have to pay them 3,000.00 for a 5 day outfitted or 7 day guided only hunt. 

If I draw the same tag with 0 points, I still pay them 1,500.00 for the 5 day outfitted. 

If I draw a unit 10 Early Archery Bull tag with 8 points, I still pay 2,000.00 for the base 5 day outfitted package.

If I draw the same tag with 0 points, they cover the entire 4,500.00

 

It all makes sense and I was going to do exactly what they are trying to prevent, sign up the year before you are almost 100% to draw and then get a cheap guide. 

 

Seems fair to me. Seems like you are trying to get a free hunt for just the annual fee. I get it, ZERO may be misleading....I’m a member for deer and I’m applying for an archery strip tag. I started with 4 points. When i draw, ill pay them $1,500 plus the $175 a year until i draw. Even if it takes me 10 years to draw I’ll only be out $3,250. That’s probably $2,000 cheaper than i could buy that hunt for now. Not counting for inflation in 10 years. My 2nd choice is late 12AW. Also started with 4 points. If i draw that tag at any time my hunt is fully paid for. There are quite a few options that are in fact ZERO fee. Seems like a very fair concept to me. 

[Ohthatguy]

2 minutes ago, codyhuntsaz said:

Seems fair to me. Seems like you are trying to get a free hunt for just the annual fee. I get it, ZERO may be misleading....I’m a member for deer and I’m applying for an archery strip tag. I started with 4 points. When i draw, ill pay them $1,500 plus the $175 a year until i draw. Even if it takes me 10 years to draw I’ll only be out $3,250. That’s probably $2,000 cheaper than i could buy that hunt for now. Not counting for inflation in 10 years. My 2nd choice is late 12AW. Also started with 4 points. If i draw that tag at any time my hunt is fully paid for. There are quite a few options that are in fact ZERO fee. Seems like a very fair concept to me. 

I never said it wasn't fair, I only claimed that it was NOT what they had been selling for years and NOT what was quoted by Travis in the original thread. 

 

And as for me trying to get a free hunt, my priorities changed so instead of waiting for however long it takes to draw 9 or 10, I decided I want to hunt next year. So if I now put in for a hunt that I am almost 100% to draw, why not use them for one years membership fee?  Seems stupid not to. 

For what it's worth, I get pissed when I go to Wendy's only to find out that their .50 frosty deal expired...

[codyhuntsaz]

15 minutes ago, Ohthatguy said:

I never said it wasn't fair, I only claimed that it was NOT what they had been selling for years and NOT what was quoted by Travis in the original thread. 

 

And as for me trying to get a free hunt, my priorities changed so instead of waiting for however long it takes to draw 9 or 10, I decided I want to hunt next year. So if I now put in for a hunt that I am almost 100% to draw, why not use them for one years membership fee?  Seems stupid not to. 

For what it's worth, I get pissed when I go to Wendy's only to find out that their .50 frosty deal expired...

Times change i guess, the thread was from 3 years ago. Don’t tell me you’re a vanilla frosty guy too....haha 

[Idaho Rob]

Hi fellas, sorry for the long post from a newbie.

I'm new to the group but am very interested in this discussion. I have some considerations that may not affect the other members of Zero Guide Fees. First off, both my wife and I joined earlier this month. We live in Idaho (great hunting here) so our cost was $554 each for and Elk hunt because we are non-residents of Arizona. We just spent $1,108 hoping to get drawn this season. We are both retired and on a fixed income, of course, meaning that could be a strain if we have to do that for a several years. And more than likely, we may only take 1 Elk between us ... maybe not?

Now, we are both turning 69 this year, so waiting several years to get drawn could be bad because of our advance age, and getting older. We feel we're in good enough shape right now to be on an easy or moderate difficult Elk hunt, but probably not as the years go by. It may prove a bad investment for us. God forbid one of us (or both) die before we get drawn, and what would we do about that? That possibility is in play for all, but the odds increase dramatically at out age.

You're probably wondering why we even signed up to hunt Arizona when we live not 10 miles from a terrific Elk hunt hunt opportunity at no more cost than a senior resident license for $11.75 and tag for $16.50. In fact, we get Elk right on our small ranch or neighboring property. The reason for the Arizona Elk hunt is because my oldest brother asked to hunt with him one last time (his words).

He is 81 now and will be 82 before Elk season! If he doesn't get drawn this year his chances of never using the service are really high! But that is the reason we joined. I hope we didn't just make a contribution for nothing in return. Chances of us joining year after year are slim to none if my brother is not there to hunt. I need to contact Travis to ask him to change our hunt category to "getting drawn sooner and we don't care what the Elk size is".

I am providing a link of the resident herd no more than 10 miles from our home. We filmed it a few weeks ago while driving around to different hunting opportunities where we live. I hope Travis will view it so he sees what kind of hunting opportunity we have versus the financial commitment we've made to hunt Arizona in his program.