Which 6.5 for a short action?

[rcdinaz]

I built a 6.5x284 on a Rem SA, thought I would be okay with using it as a single shot on the 140g VLD's but I am tired of doing so just on the first load development. So for the 284 I will most likely swap out the SA for a LA.

 

For the short action give me some opinions on which cartridge?

 

I will probably have to drop down to the 120ish grain bullets but could put together a pretty slick mountain rifle. 260Rem, 6.5x47, or Creedmoor seem like they would work, no changes to the bolt face. At first glance I was leaning towards the Creedmoor but want some feedback. It looks like I could still actually load the 140's but probably won't need to for a hiking and packing rifle.

 

 

 

 

[JJ_Gibbs]

6.5x47 lapua/6.5 creedmore/260 Remington are probably the easiest 3 options to build on a SA unless you don't care about good brass or want to make your own. Frankly there really isn't good quality brass available for the 6.5 creedmore so I would lean towards the 6.5x47 lapua or 260 Rem so I could use lapua or norma brass. What are your plans with the rifle, paper and long range steel or hunting?

[STOMP442]

.260 Ackley Improved will provide the same performance of your 6.5-284 and fit a short action with 140gr bullets plus use about 8 grains less powder to do it. I would never willingly shoot a 120 grain bullet unless the rifle just won't shoot the 140's. If you are stuck on the calibers you have listed the Creed would probably be the easiest to do but the straight .260 gets my vote.

[roninflag]

what barrel?? twist?

[JJ_Gibbs]

After I read the last part of your post I would go with a 260 rem, 1 in 8 or 1 in 8.5 twist barrel 22-24 inches if you can and you will have an awesome pack rifle. I am getting ready to build about the same thing but it's probably going to be in a 6mm caliber of some sort.

[willhunt4coues]

6.5x47 lapua/6.5 creedmore/260 Remington are probably the easiest 3 options to build on a SA unless you don't care about good brass or want to make your own. Frankly there really isn't good quality brass available for the 6.5 creedmore so I would lean towards the 6.5x47 lapua or 260 Rem so I could use lapua or norma brass. What are your plans with the rifle, paper and long range steel or hunting?

What do you mean there isn't GOOD quality brass for creedmoor?

Nosler and Norma both make brass for creedmoor I have 300 pieces of both.

I personally think Lapua brass is over rated. I compared some Lapua 308 with Nosler 308 and the Nosler had better neck thickness consistency, Nosler all weighed within 1.5 gns compared to lapua.

The accuracy you get with the 30 degree shoulder on the 6.5 Creedmoor is why most competition shooters choose it over the .260. BUT the .260 is good I personally think after all the ups of the 6.5 cm thats what you should get. I read a few articles where they said the 6.5 Creedmoor is the .260 done right.

[JJ_Gibbs]

I am sorry I was mistaken I thought Hornady and Winchester was the only readily available brass for 6.5 Creedmoor. If Norma and Nosler are available then that makes Creedmoor a valid option. I will always choose Lapua brass as my first option if it's available but you're 100% correct there is absolutely nothing wrong with Norma or Nosler brass.

[Big or Bust]

How does a 260 Ackley provide the same performance as a 6.5-284 given same pressures and barrel lengths?

[lancetkenyon]

6.5 SLR!!! 140 Berger HVLD @ 2920fps (from a 27" barrel). 24" should net you around 2850fps+/-.

 

Or, .260 Ackley Imp.

 

If you don't mind losing velocity, the 6.5 Creedmoor and 6.5x47 Lapua are great shooters. But case capacity makes pushing the 140s a struggle to maintain 2800+ FPS.

 

I would not want to shoot 120s either. 130s at the minimum. Retained energy and BC are my reasoning.

[STOMP442]

It's called case efficiency. I have built a handful of .260AI's and 6.5-284s over the last few years so I feel like I have a pretty good grasp of what each caliber is capable of.

 

This is my data with both calibers with components as near to the same as possible even.

 

.260 Ackley improved

Savage model 111 action

26" Mcgowen varmint weight 8 twist barrel

Lapua Brass

140gr Berger VLD

42.0gr of H4350 = 2940 fps

44.5gr of H4831 = 2960 fps

 

 

6.5-284 Norma

Savage model 111 action

26" Mcgowen Varmint weight 8 twist barrel

Norma Brass

140gr Berger VLD

57.5gr of Retumbo = 2960 fps

52.0gr of H4831 = 2950 fps

 

Now these are my rifles and my data but I have built a number of rifles in each caliber that have ended up liking loads and velocities very similar to what I have been running in my own rigs. Every .260AI I have built has liked 42-44.5gr of H4350 with a 140gr bullet right around the 2950 mark. Every 6.5-284 I have built has liked 53-58gr of Retumbo or 4831 with a 140gr bullet right around the 2950 mark. Now each cartridge is capable of higher velocities and the 6.5-284 will push the 140's a bit faster but at a cost of barrel life, recoil and powder usage.

[rcdinaz]

Thanks for all of the feedback!

 

I was under the impression the 260 and was still a bit on the long side for cycling the 140's smoothly?

 

Really that was the main reason for considering the other two. Although I have read of quite a few getting pretty close with their Creedmoor MV's to the 260 numbers. Of course I am sure that is pushing it on the pressure side.

 

If the 260 will cycle rounds as a hunting rifle that sounds like the answer followed by the Creedmoor.

 

My new opinion on brass is the Nosler stuff is the best thing going. I have always preached Lapua but after loading 2 rifles with the Nosler that stuff is fantastic. It comes completely finished, flash hole, case mouth, primer pockets etc. A box full of cases that come ready to load and are almost perfectly matched is worth some extra $ in my opinion.

[Big or Bust]

How many firings on your Ackley brass before pockets are toast? Efficiency is great but doesn't get you a free lunch. Kinda like saying the .308 and .30-06 are the same. Case capacity is what it is.

 

Your .260 is running at much higher pressures than your -284...

 

Good luck with both loads...

[lancetkenyon]

I have a few (24) 6.5 SLR cases (Winchester brand .243 Win formed to 6.5 SLR) that were out of spec for consistency of brass content when I weight sorted mine that I load 142 SMKs @ 2920fps for warm up rounds. They have between 5 & 6 firings on them with tight primer pockets so far. I load 43.0 grains of H4350 in them. Kind of hot, but not over pressure from any signs I have observed. I can see getting another 3-5 out of them. And they fit in a Rem 700 SA easily.

 

Trying to fit a 6.5-.284 Win (or Norma) with 140 gr. bullets into a short action stuffs the bullets way back into the case (if you want a repeater), reducing case capacity for powder, and increasing pressure inside the case. Plus, you usually need to run a different powder burn rate with the case capacity. Making it not as efficient.

 

Shorter cases with the bullet seated out longer increases available case capacity for more room for powder, and increases velocity without increasing pressure. More efficient.

 

I think that is where you see velocities starting to come close with pressures remaining similar between a .260AI and a 6.5-.284 Win (or Norma). I had similar results with my .250 Ackley Imp. vs. a standard .25-06 Rem. Same bullets within 70 fps, with about 11 grains less powder. The .250 AI was a hotter load, I admit. But 44 grains of H414 vs. 55 grains of H4831 only netted 67fps (from 3100 to 3167fps pushing a 115 HVLD). A lot (if not all) of that would be the difference between a 24" barrel and a 28" barrel too.

 

Plus, the Ackley Improvement of a 40° shoulder and a bit longer neck reduces throat erosion from scorching with a smaller powder charge. And they look so darn cool!

[Big or Bust]

There are numerous things you can do to make cartridges produce similar velocities even though one has significantly more capacity. Throat, barrel length, powder, etc. But to say a cartridge has the same performance as another when all things are equal and one has 10-20 % more capacity just isn't correct.

 

This is all fun ballistic gack anyways. Ad long as eyeballs are in tact.

 

The 250 Ackley sure is a sweetheart, even if it is a .25...grin...

[lancetkenyon]

Don't be hating on the quarter bores....

 

There are a ton of very experienced shooters and reloaders here, and most of them have different opinions on what cartridge they would choose and why. I am glad to see discussions on these subjects. It brings out a lot of information and suggestions that would normally be overlooked.

 

I used to be a speed whore. A cartridge had to be fast for me to consider it (hence my two Ackleys, RUM, magnums, etc.). I still like a fast, flat shooter, but I have learned to like heavy for caliber projectiles now over pure speed. Gives me longer range capabilities rather than light bullets and pure speed. Under 500 yards, it doesn't make much difference. But get beyond that, and the heavies, even pushed slower, overtake the light bullets in drop, energy, wind drift, etc.