Just getting into muzzleloader any suggestions

[buglethemin]

Bowhunt AZ, thanks I plan on ordering one next week through muzzleloader.com with the leupold ultimateslam sabr.. let me know how it shoots. Did you buy a different breech plug? The guys at muzzleloader told me if you shoot bh209 buy the plug for loose powder vrs the breech plug it comes with. Let me know how it shoots.

[BowHuntAZ]

I did buy the BH breech plug. I also upgraded to Warne two piece bases with Leupold rings and put a Leupold VX3 on it. If I happen upon a good load for it this weekend I'll let you know what works for me. I'm planning on shooting a 300gr conical but also bought some sabots to try. I'm new to muzzys myself so I'm learning from scratch too.

[BowHuntAZ]

I got out Saturday and shot a few different loads and I wasn't as impressed as I hoped to be but there's still time and more options to try.

 

Here's what the constants were: All 100 yard shots from a bench. All with a moderately warm barrel (It would take too long to actually go cold) All shooting a Federal 209A shotgun primer.

 

The variable: Wind was anywhere from 2-10 mph gusty but manageable.

 

Load 1: 90 gr (by volume) of BH209 with a Thor 300 gr = Group 2.5" (I was very disappointed in this and will try more loads later with this bullet)

Load 2: 90 gr BH209 with a Thor 250 gr = group 2"

Load 3: 90 gr BH209 with TC Shockwave 300 gr sabot = group 1.8"

Load 4: 100 gr BH209 with Thor 250 gr = group 1.8"

 

I am interested to try all of these bullets with more powder to see what it does. I'd also like to see a high velocity since I'll be shooting an elk with this and would like to be effective over 200 yards.

 

I was really hoping for 1" groups at 100 and will continue to try different powder and bullet combinations until I achieve this. I also plan on trying a different primer to see if it affects the groups.

[yotebuster]

I got out Saturday and shot a few different loads and I wasn't as impressed as I hoped to be but there's still time and more options to try.

 

Here's what the constants were: All 100 yard shots from a bench. All with a moderately warm barrel (It would take too long to actually go cold) All shooting a Federal 209A shotgun primer.

 

The variable: Wind was anywhere from 2-10 mph gusty but manageable.

 

Load 1: 90 gr (by volume) of BH209 with a Thor 300 gr = Group 2.5" (I was very disappointed in this and will try more loads later with this bullet)

Load 2: 90 gr BH209 with a Thor 250 gr = group 2"

Load 3: 90 gr BH209 with TC Shockwave 300 gr sabot = group 1.8"

Load 4: 100 gr BH209 with Thor 250 gr = group 1.8"

 

I am interested to try all of these bullets with more powder to see what it does. I'd also like to see a high velocity since I'll be shooting an elk with this and would like to be effective over 200 yards.

 

I was really hoping for 1" groups at 100 and will continue to try different powder and bullet combinations until I achieve this. I also plan on trying a different primer to see if it affects the groups.

I hate to say it but you are setting your standards pretty high. A 1.8" group at 100 is very very good for a muzzleloader. You can read all about people getting 1" groups etc but the reality of it is muzzleloaders are extremely finicky. The pressure you put down on the powder when you seat, the between shot swabbing (or not depending on what works) the amount of powder residue, type of sabot etc all are working against you and creating variables. I've had cva's, tc's, Knights, and most recently a Johnston ultimate, and to be honest with you I've never owned one that would CONSISTENTLY print 1" groups. I've shot lots of 1" groups but most of the time my consistent average for a good load was between 1.5-2". You'll find that you'll get things all dialed in and set up and go back a week later and it will change. You'll shoot a 1" group one day and think you have it all figured out and the next week it'll be 2.5" with a 6" flyer. Look for consistency more then group size in my opinion. I bought my Johnston ultimate last year and it's the first consistent gun I've ever owned. I think it has a lot to do with the priming system using center fire primers over 209 primers. There's almost no fouling left in the barrel even with a 200gr charge. I think this goes a long way in the consisrency. You can duplicate that by having a good between shot swabbing system but then again if you need follow up shots in the field it all goes out the window. A final thing I would say is once you get it dialed in, duplicate field scenarios. I don't mean shoot off your but etc, that is implied. I mean load it up and leave the charge in the barrel for a week or so in your truck and the. Cap it and shoot it at 150 yds etc. you'll find that changes in temp humidity etc will really screw with the loaded charge. None of your field shots are gonna be freshly loaded swabbed warm barrels placed seconds before they're fired. You're gonna load it up and it's gonna bounce around in the truck/quad for a few days being primed and un primed over and over and then finally get touched off. My Johnston handles this well. My TC was ok. My knight was super picky. I had to fire that gun every morning in camp. Do my between shot swabbing and load it back up daily to keep it consistent or it woild be6+" off. That makes for a major pain in the butt on hunts where you're staying in a hotel!! Good luck and don't forget that muzzleloader a really only have enough energy to 200-300 yards a 1.8" group will keep you minute of vitals to that range all day!!

[BowHuntAZ]

yotebuster thanks for the feedback. I completely understand what you're saying about the many variables that affect the consistency. I will be doing more cold bore testing as the temps here cool down and allow for me to get more than one cold bore shot per hour but this weekend didn't allow for it as hot as it was even at 7am. I guess it's good to know that I am getting average groups already but I'm still slightly unhappy about that size of groups. I understand it's a so called primitive weapon but with modern technology I expect better from my equipment. But then again I am not shooting a $5k custom muzzle loader either so I can't expect too much.

 

That's a great idea to field test the load in the gun for a while. I was wondering about the load sitting in my gun for a few days and was curious how much it will affect the shot. I will definitely try that out and see how it affects my gun.

 

Keep the input coming guys, I appreciate it and hopefully the OP is getting some good advice as well. I didn't mean to hi-jjack the thread but i think it's beneficial to anyone muzzle loading.

[Red Sparky]

"That's a great idea to field test the load in the gun for a while. I was wondering about the load sitting in my gun for a few days and was curious how much it will affect the shot. I will definitely try that out and see how it affects my gun."

 

 

I have left a load in my ML for a year, went off first cap, hit right where it should. Loaded clean for hunting and never fired it so left it, I actually forgot about it. I would never leave one I had fired that long without cleaning it.

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

I made it out this morning for my first ever muzzy shots. I can say that loading was a pain, I'm going to have to look into different ways guys do this. It was awkward and the 20 mile wind wasn't helping any. So I loaded 100 grn bh209 on 200 grn bullet with sabot and let her rip. Had 2 holes touching at 80 yards in bad wind. That's it for now. I used magnum 209 primers and I did some mods on my breach plug. It was really cool to shoot no doubt.

[khmer6]

I made it out this morning for my first ever muzzy shots. I can say that loading was a pain, I'm going to have to look into different ways guys do this. It was awkward and the 20 mile wind wasn't helping any. So I loaded 100 grn bh209 on 200 grn bullet with sabot and let her rip. Had 2 holes touching at 80 yards in bad wind. That's it for now. I used magnum 209 primers and I did some mods on my breach plug. It was really cool to shoot no doubt.

was it hard to push in or your palm hurting? the newer CVA have the palm saver. kind of a round rubber end of the ram rod. After a few rounds, the sabots do have a hard time going down, i usually spit clean every couple rounds

[Becker]

I just took a golf ball and drilled a hole 3/4 of the way through just slightly bigger than my push rod. Makes a great handle to push and fits in your pocket nice. I like it better than the power rod t handle one. Beats buying a whole new rod if you don't want to.

[khmer6]

neato idea right there! I know it hurts like heck when pushing full bore bullets I cast. Some lube always help along the way

[yotebuster]

I just took a golf ball and drilled a hole 3/4 of the way through just slightly bigger than my push rod. Makes a great handle to push and fits in your pocket nice. I like it better than the power rod t handle one. Beats buying a whole new rod if you don't want to.

That's an awesome idea!! I love this site!!!

[buglethemin]

Bowhunt and yotebuster all awesome info. Thanks guys for listing all the info you obtained recently at the range and years of expierence with those shooting muzzleloader. I have that December muzzy hunt in the desert here and can't wait to work a load up. But first need to concentrate on my archery bull elk hunt in 7w that starts in a few weeks.

[duckhunter175]

Bugle-- Did you order the Accura LR or the V2?? I have a stainless v2 with Bushnell DOA 250 3x9 scope. I've used it for 2 seasons, going into the 3rd and harvested 3 deer with it so far. Here are some thoughts for other accessories and loads.

 

BH209 Breech Plug-- YES!

GiRamrod and Spin Jag Loader and Jag www.spinjag.com

Harvester Muzzleloading Crush Rib Sabots

Harvester Scorpion PT Gold (260gr)

 

I use the Black Crush Ribs over 95gr BH209 with Win 777 209 Primers-- 3 Whitetail in KY, great expansion; one DRT, two ran less than 20yds.

[Xforcebaby]

That's really awesome info on muzzleloading.

[buglethemin]

Finally got my muzzy. Went with the cva accura v2 LR their new top of line 30 inch barrel. Mounted a zeiss 4.5x14 conquest. I got it on paper today using 777 primers and 2 pellets of 777 powder 100 gr. then I moved back to 100 and got a nice 3 shot group and then it rained on me and had to pack it up. I used hornady sst 250 gr. I can't wait to go out again and try longer distance and try black horn and other bullets. Here is a pic of my 3 shot group at 100. Not to bad but I still need to fine tune. I didn't do any cleaning between shots. Next time I will and see how much more it will tighten up. Thanks for all the info guys.