Pay to Play?

[Coach]

It's looking like the Feds are wanting to take more control over public lands. Personally, I don't see how or where we gave the government the ability to charge us to access public places. When I lived in the valley and had to pay to park my car at Canyon Lake or Bartlett, I thought it was a little over-the-top.

 

Now, when camping at Roosevelt, you need a Tonto Pass - even if you are dry camping, Lone Rock on Lake Powell, you have to buy a $25 access pass because it is a National Park and $12 nightly camping fee - they provide NOTHING except the guy who charges you.

 

It's a lot like the OHV program we have here. You have to pay $50 a year to legally drive your off-highway vehicle. The justification for the charge is to pay for officers to enforce the new law. Am I missing something here? We have to pay to have someone to make sure we are paying?

 

From what I'm hearing, the Forest Service now wants to set up pay booths in the White Mountains, while shutting down back country roads. So now I get to pay more to access the land I've always been on with less access to that land. What part of this is supposed to benefit me?

 

I'm not really just venting here. I'm asking how we fight this. To me, public land should be open to the public, not a chance for some gov't employee whose salary I pay, to charge me to access what I should already have access to.

 

What are your thoughts?

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

In my opinion this and many many things just like it we are talking about money to enforce commun sense. High traffic areas cost money, the more people cone in and wreck high traffic areas the more they cost so the more money needs to be raised. The there manpower to enforce so when there is none they shut down instead of Adding manpower or more revenue to add manpower. Both of which piss people off. Anyway its population growth, can't avoid it for ever. Just head up on a holiday weekend to a popular spot on Tuesday after holiday and see what fs is dealing with. Your camp may leave no trace but the majority on those weekends are somewhat different

[khmer6]

Helps pay for salaries. Employing public sector. :-D

[Str8Shot]

It's looking like the Feds are wanting to take more control over public lands. Personally, I don't see how or where we gave the government the ability to charge us to access public places. When I lived in the valley and had to pay to park my car at Canyon Lake or Bartlett, I thought it was a little over-the-top.

 

Now, when camping at Roosevelt, you need a Tonto Pass - even if you are dry camping, Lone Rock on Lake Powell, you have to buy a $25 access pass because it is a National Park and $12 nightly camping fee - they provide NOTHING except the guy who charges you.

 

It's a lot like the OHV program we have here. You have to pay $50 a year to legally drive your off-highway vehicle. The justification for the charge is to pay for officers to enforce the new law. Am I missing something here? We have to pay to have someone to make sure we are paying?

 

From what I'm hearing, the Forest Service now wants to set up pay booths in the White Mountains, while shutting down back country roads. So now I get to pay more to access the land I've always been on with less access to that land. What part of this is supposed to benefit me?

 

I'm not really just venting here. I'm asking how we fight this. To me, public land should be open to the public, not a chance for some gov't employee whose salary I pay, to charge me to access what I should already have access to.

 

What are your thoughts?

Yeah ... The Tonto pass and changes at Roosevelt imo were a Joke and while I am not a fan I help fund those jobs .... I once seen it take 4 different officers all in nice Brand new trucks to deal with moving a rattle snake ... so the $$$$ are not even going to the most capable people...

 

I see no issue with the OHV program and to be honest when it comes to cost and access Arizona gives much more for less than many other states ... majority of states you can not even make your OHV street legal...

 

As far as Booths in the White Mountains ... do you have a link or info on the proposed bill ... Minus an Obama order it will go through the house and senate .. and the only way to battle is reaching out to the right representative and senators to battle it in the process ... Wouldn't it be nice if the people that were affected got to actually vote and voice their real opinions ?

[naturegirl]

I'm not a fan of paying either and i do everything in my power not to pay by avoiding "improved areas."

 

I will say if you visit say Illinois you will quickly realize we have a HUGE state with pretty much unlimited public access in most of it. This is because we have a ton of public land (and we know who oversees public land).

 

Even if a toll booth is installed (which I don't agree with not knowing any of the details) I feel we are still blessed to be in AZ and have millions of acres of land at our disposal whenever we want it.

 

I suck it up and pay when I have to but if I can find a way not to pay, that's the route I'll go.

[billrquimby]

I've not heard of a toll booth proposed for the White Mountains. Does anyone have details or rumors to share?

 

Bill Quimby

 

[PRDATR]

I stopped going to the Salt River and the lakes a decade ago when this stuff started.

[JLW]

It's looking like the Feds are wanting to take more control over public lands. Personally, I don't see how or where we gave the government the ability to charge us to access public places. When I lived in the valley and had to pay to park my car at Canyon Lake or Bartlett, I thought it was a little over-the-top.

 

Now, when camping at Roosevelt, you need a Tonto Pass - even if you are dry camping, Lone Rock on Lake Powell, you have to buy a $25 access pass because it is a National Park and $12 nightly camping fee - they provide NOTHING except the guy who charges you.

 

It's a lot like the OHV program we have here. You have to pay $50 a year to legally drive your off-highway vehicle. The justification for the charge is to pay for officers to enforce the new law. Am I missing something here? We have to pay to have someone to make sure we are paying?

 

From what I'm hearing, the Forest Service now wants to set up pay booths in the White Mountains, while shutting down back country roads. So now I get to pay more to access the land I've always been on with less access to that land. What part of this is supposed to benefit me?

 

I'm not really just venting here. I'm asking how we fight this. To me, public land should be open to the public, not a chance for some gov't employee whose salary I pay, to charge me to access what I should already have access to.

 

What are your thoughts?

read chapter 2

http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/docs/final-guidelines.pdf

 

here is something yopu may also be interested in

http://westernslopenofee.org/index2.php?display=yes&display=yes&pageid=7

 

James

[BeardownAZ]

Toll booths are as corrupt as it gets. Double charging you for something they already tax you for. Charging access to lakes and such is no different. Yeah I get the FS and such need to get paid for there job but that again is what taxes are for to begin with. To fund public servants. This amounts to just more revenue for agencies who already cant manage money so they ask for more in a different way.

[Desert muley]

This is my favorite rant and the reason I no longer fish at Roosevelt. To start with I must drive almost 100 miles which means I must have a vehicle which requires a license plate = tax ,I must put fuel in my vehicle=gas tax, I must have a drivers license=tax, If I want to fish from a boat it must have registration=tax, my boat requires a trailer which also need a license plate=tax, Then I must buy a fishing license=tax, two pole and trout stamp now included with license=tax, you need a Tonto Pass=tax you must pay to park=tax, campsite=tax that's ten taxes and I haven't even drowned a worm yet oh I did not even mention the sales tax on my rod reel and lures

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

Thanks desert m now I am depressed

[khmer6]

seriously.... that was a very depressing realization lol. I'm all for paying for jobs etc. but sometimes its not really paying for jobs, its paying for the incompleteness of some moron manager that over spends or the bureaucratic decisions that end up costing the tax payers cuz someone couldn't get their sh*t together. We always hear of more fees and increased taxes, but when was the last time we ever gotten anything back cuz they over budget or didn't spend it all? It doesn't exist, cuz the programs, departments etc will SPEND every single penny from a grant or loan they get even if they didnt need to buy anything!!! and whos getting right is the corporations and contracts they have with the businesses

[Str8Shot]

Desert Muley and do not forget that worm was taxed about 4 - 5 different ways before he even makes it on your hook

[madx250]

I am also frustrated with the whole situation from top to bottom. We are te getting railed.

[elkaholic]

Next time you have to pay for access and you get your crap stolen - what legal grounds can one pursue to get the fs or government agency to pay for your losses ?

 

payment should come with some form of security!

 

like the tonto NF they claim to have 3 or 4 officers to patrol the whole forest ??

 

then 3 show up " rather quickly " to remove a snake ?? probably at a lake parking lot !