Buffalo guides and outftters?

[Burro creek]

Be careful, remember if you are not Russ client he will screw you over to help a paying client. To have him teach the class and offer paid guided hunts during the class us a huge conflict if you get a chance ask home what he did to my 12 year old son. He was very shady I am disappoint G&F is associated with him

[NOTAGS]

B C , you would be the only person I have ever heard speak badly of Russ, I have talked to numerous people who were not his clients that he helped out on that hunt over the years. I would say that for a newbie to log in and make disparaging remarks like that, it sounds like a personal character attack and grudge.

[kd300wsm]

Burro creek is a top knotch guy. His son got screwed out of killING. So they could fill the supper raffle tag who was a paying client . Kind of screwed up to kick a 12 year old kid out of his spot to bring in another guy to shoot.

[Burro creek]

It is not a grudge or attack just the truth please see buffalo questions for the whole story

[Burro creek]

 

Dear Buffalo Hunter,

 

If you had the opportunity to attend the Buffalo Education Class that was provided by the Az Game and Fish department and walked away with more questions than answers, you are not alone. I would like to share some information with you that I wish someone would have taken the time to share with me before I went hunting.

 

I was able to attend the meeting in Flagstaff. There I learned about buffalo and some of their habits from the “experts” that put on the class, and I am thankful for that. Looking back on the situation, having a professional guide with years of experience teach the class is a good idea. However, when they will be providing guided hunts at the same time they are providing you with information on where to hunt has the potential for a conflict of interest. When I left the class it felt like there was no other option except to hunt with the group and that if I didn't I would “mess it up for everyone.” Looking back I would have NOT hunted in a group. I will explain below.

 

In the class I was offered to camp on the road with other buffalo hunters; this seemed like a good idea so we could share information throughout the hunt. What I later learned /felt was that we were offered to camp together so that the “experts” could keep track of everyone while he is out hunting with a paid client. There were several times that we were asked, “Why are you in camp? You need to be out there hunting.” and “Why did you come back?” I wanted to tell them that this was my son's hunt and if we wanted to come back to camp I could, but I never did.

 

The first morning most of the hunters gathered at the “experts” camp to determine where each hunter was going to hunt. Like promised in the class there was a blind, chairs and camera at each location. My first thought was this was too good to be true. Over the next 4 days we stayed 10-12 hours in the blind. On the fifth day is when things got very interesting.

 

We woke up and met like we had done for the past several days before going out. At this time everyone went to their “assigned” area, however I was told that he wanted to move me and give me a better chance to see a buffalo. That morning he had spotlighted in the meadow and stated that he only saw 4 bulls an no cows. So I took his word for it and moved locations. He even made sure that I made it to the blind by sending his wife to escort us which he never had done before. After sitting in this location and afraid to get up and walk around for fear of messing it up, I finally walked around the area and pulled the game camera card.

 

What I found out was that there had been no buffalo in the area for the past three days which was opposite of what he told us and there were three buffalo skeletons that had been butchered out with in 100 yards of my original blind. I found this a little disappointing as I thought they put me in this location to help me find a buffalo.

 

I decided to leave the location and go back to the area we were first “assigned”. What I found was very disappointing. I found that the “expert” had moved me to a different location so he could bring in a paying client to kill a buffalo. When I went there all the tracks had been brushed away, all the cards from the camera had been removed and the blood was mostly cleaned up, but there was enough left to determine what had happened. Blood, hair, and truck tracks were all throughout the blind area. I was on my way back to camp when stopped by the “expert” and wanted to know how my day was. I stated that I should have stayed in the same blind, at this time I could see that he knew that I knew what had happened.

 

He went on the defensive very quickly, stating that he did all this work for the hunters, and that if I wanted to question him I could got out on my own. I just wanted to know why he would take the information that he had and basically 'sell us out' for a paying client. I then asked him that what would happen if I chose not to change blinds, he response was that he would circle around and shoot the buffalo before they got to your blind. I also asked him why he did not get on the radio, and call other hunters like he taught in in class. At this point I could see that there was no point in asking any more questions, because he was very upset that I had caught on to the true situation.

 

We continued to hunt in the original location, and on the morning of the 7th day we were in the blind earlier that anyone expected, including the expert and his client. As we settled into our blind we saw them checking the game camera for “our area” they never knew we saw them after this we packed our things and came home.

 

I contacted the Game and Fish department and they said it was my choice to hunt with him or not and would not change the way they were operating. I asked to attend the next class and they said that that was not a good idea and would not provide me with the dates and location of the next class. So I did the next best thing inform the public of my experiences. Like I stated in the start of this story the expert did exactly what he said he would and I am thankful for that. His intentions may be good, however please be advised you don't have to hunt “with” him and be aware you may be shot out if the saddle if he can make a dime. He may have helped a lot of people but this is what happened to me and my son. If you get a chance as him why he did what he did it would be interesting

[NOTAGS]

Sounds like a raw deal if he did do that.. I can understand your resentment. Sorry your son did not get a chance to kill a bison.

Which hunt did your son have?

[azoutlaw]

Was the paying customer a bull Hunter and your son a cow Hunter? If so it makes perfect sense to move you and put a bull Hunter in the blind if he only spotlighted Bulls in the field. Those buffalo can hit any salt at any given time. You have no clue the time and money Russ puts out to keep up his salt licks. You should be grateful he helped you for free along with numerous others. But he is a guide and his clients take priority so if you want a free handout then don't expect to be put in front of the clients who help pay the bills.

[azoutlaw]

Different perspective. If you were his paying client and you knew there were Bulls most likely going to hit a certain salt. Would you not be upset if he didn't move one of his " freebies" to a different salt and put you in the best position to kill?

[azoutlaw]

Different perspective. If you were his paying client and you knew there were Bulls most likely going to hit a certain salt. Would you not be upset if he didn't move one of his " freebies" to a different salt and put you in the best position to kill?

[Basser15]

Different perspective. If you were his paying client and you knew there were Bulls most likely going to hit a certain salt. Would you not be upset if he didn't move one of his " freebies" to a different salt and put you in the best position to kill?

 

But it's public land. The guides do not own it and as a "Freebie" you should not have to move out of the way of somebody who is paying a guide just because they are paying a guide. I had that hunt this past Spring and was one of the "Freebies" and was able to get it done when I went against the grain.

[trphyhntr]

I don't know what burro is exaclty mad about?

[Sneaker]

Just from an outsiders perspective, what I have heard about the hunt, the herd, and the relationship between the G&F and certain guides up there just seems very weird. I understand it is a very unique hunt, and maybe that relationship is just what they have found is what it takes to help the most hunters be successful.

[NOTAGS]

As the regs say, its first come first entitled to the place, no different than hunting water on early elk or deer hunts. I guess if Russ had set blinds with chairs out, he shouldnt have to expect somebody to be in his blind by getting there first, but he should honor somebodies position if they got to that salt first and set themselves up.

 

Russ does bust his butt to maintain salt up there and keep the bison coming out of the park, I havent heard of anyone else hauling sixty 50 lb blocks into the woods in a weekend.

 

Its a sticky situation, everyone wants to hunt the areas the bison move to ( read salt blocks), yet how many will put in the effort all year to get them moving. I have to feel that a guy who puts in the time and money should expect a return on it, as in successful and happy clients, but I also have had situations where guides think they own the forest as well. Everyone is entitled to hunt it.

 

They need to open the Park to bison hunting to alleviate this problem and give hunters some elbow room.

[Couzer]

Advertising on Couewhitetail approved by Amanda he should be running a good guiding service?

[kd300wsm]

You would think so