Why tags fees are increasing

[mntman]

Recenetly Arizona game and fish has been giving the reason for increasing the price of the hunting and tag fees due to increase cost of gas and other operation expensives. However I would like to point out a few thing that i think are also behind the raise in our fees to hunt.

 

I have learned from talking with the rangemaster at the Ben Avery shooting range that we pay these rangemaster more then we pay our wildlife biologist. Starting pay for a rangemaster is about $35k a year. This is for both full time and part time employees at the range. While a Wildlife manager starts at $30k a year. A willdlife spec earn also $30k a year starting and a wildlife tech is luckly to make $27k a year.

Now the sad thing is that the Rangemaster postion requires no education past High school. While the Wildlife spec and tech postion often require a 4 year degree with a focus on wildlife, and the Wildlife manager job requires not only a degree in the biological science but most also get AZPost cert. Yet if you look on the state job listing website you find that the AZGFD is trying to fill Wildlife spec III postions with people at the Spec I postion so they can pay the less monies. So why are they willing to spend so much more of you monies on someone working at a range then someone working to improve the habitat for the wildlife.

Now they cant say they dont need more biologist and such, cause I have talk with people that have been employeed by the department as a summer intern for 2 years, as their was such a need for a extra hand at the regional office and even at the phoenix HQ that these part time summer jobs are being turned into part time year round jobs.

While at the same time people at AZGFD are talking about spending money to build and operate a paintball fields at the ben avery shooting range. Yet they cant even manage to put into place a 3D archery range,Due to the cost of operation the range, while Usery pass park manages to operate a 3D archery range before and during the archery season. So now their going to build a paintball field, which means their going to have to hire more of their range master which means another employee making $32k a year, while our biologist are luckly to to less then that, and have to fight for every dollar they get and count on the sportsmen and women to help donate time and effort to projects.

Also with the twelve employees of which 4 are part times the total cost of wages for the range is roughly $340,000 just for the main range, this doesnt inculde all those other range master that work at the clay target center and such. Which means based on the 340k in just wages that the range needs over 64k people to show up and pay the $5 shooting fee, which means over 186 people a day for 365 days a year, With factoring in that their not open 7 days a week like the Rio saladio shooting range means that they have to pull in over 220 poeple a opening day to just break even on coving the payroll.

This doesnt cover cost of operation like fuel for thos trucks they drive around, Benefits for the rangemaster,and improvements to the range. So where is all this money coming for the improvments to the range like over the one million dollars being spent at the range for lighting, or the extra high rate they pay out for the roads to be repaved. Or the cost of building a Paintball field.

[stanley]

Why are tag fees increasing? My guess is inflation..... ;-)

 

Interesting information you are presenting here. I don't pretend to know the in's-n-out's of the G&F finances, but it seems to me that you could pick apart almost any big organization's finances to find things that appear to make no sense. Easy to do when it's not your job and you are just looking at a micro level example of their spending. I don't know, but I suspect that the salary expense for the department is not the biggest drain on their budget.

 

My guess is that as in most industries, salaries are likely set based on comparison's to similar positions & jobs in that particular field. If the Range Masters are making more than the WM's, then it's likely due to market forces.... There are many trades that don't require an education beyond highschool that make more than the G&F WMs.

 

"Also with the twelve employees of which 4 are part times the total cost of wages for the range is roughly $340,000 just for the main range, this doesnt inculde all those other range master that work at the clay target center and such. Which means based on the 340k in just wages that the range needs over 64k people to show up and pay the $5 shooting fee, which means over 186 people a day for 365 days a year, With factoring in that their not open 7 days a week like the Rio saladio shooting range means that they have to pull in over 220 poeple a opening day to just break even on coving the payroll."

 

With this argument, you are making the assumption that the range's are run as individual 'profit' centers, meaning that each operation must be self funded. I'm guessing that the G&F does not operate under that model. If that is what you expect, then I would think that the ranges would close-down, and we would all be forced to go to private ranges (or pay the same fee as at a private range...). Is that what you want? I like the idea that I can take my kids to the range and pay a nominal fee to use it as opposed to a private operation.

 

I personally am not surprised or turned-off by the increase in tag fees. It has happened before, and it will happen again IMO.

 

S.

 

:-)

[TLH]

The majority of the people you see at the range are either volunteers or part time employee's. You can get a part time job right now for the game and fish and here is the info Job title Job type Location Date posted Salary Range Apply by Department

 

SHOOTING RANGE ASSISTANTS

Government Phoenix Mar 01, 2007 $8 per Hour Game and Fish Department

 

Go to the state job link and apply if interested. I know that some of your numbers are way off because i have applied for several jobs that would cut my pay that i make now at least 15 grand and that is if they paid me the top pay for the chief range master which is 55 grand a year. This job has a Bachelor Degree minimum for education and you must have extensive safety training. You would be in charge of over seeing all of the ranges--work with all of the contractors and make sure that the sportsman groups are pleased with whatever range they use. Along with that job you are in charge of a budget--several employee's and volunteers in a place where people shoot all kinds of things that could ruin your day and get you sued in a heart beat.

 

True, the WM's are underpaid but then they could get another job if thing were that bad---me thinks they are happy in the job they do--who wouldn't be if you loved the outdoors--and got to drive a new Dodge everyday with out paying for gas?

 

People are always bagging on the game and fish and i agree they could do much better but then again so could any other company couldn't they?

 

I would love to hear someones suggestions on how to fix these problems that are always brought up--but you know, almost 99% of the time all you hear is a complaint and no solution--

 

How about it--got any solutions?? I think it would be a great thread if we all could come up with some way to help the game and fish be the company that we want.

[mattys281]

Nobody's happy about the tag increases, but show me one thing in life that isn't getting more expensive.

Cars... nope.

Property prices... no again.

Gas... heck NO!

My X-box crapped out a few months ago & since they don't make it anymore I have to either go without or pony up more than twice the money for the new system that does the same thing. It's the way of the world.

[DesertBull]

I will say this about the fee increases:

 

No way should a unit 10 early rifle bull tag cost the same as an archery unit 17 limited opportunity cow tag. Why can't they break up the prices to more reflect the actual worth of the tag?

 

Is a unit 6A October Coues tag worth as much as a unit 33 December tag? Not in my book.

 

I'm not saying they are over priced, just not priced correctly IMO, that's all.

[GameHauler]

DB,

I need to think on that a while

1 problem I see up front is the second choice issue

In the past I allways put in for 22 Arc. Bull first choice

Then 22 Arc Cow second.

How would you address that

Mike

[DesertBull]

DB,

I need to think on that a while

1 problem I see up front is the second choice issue

In the past I allways put in for 22 Arc. Bull first choice

Then 22 Arc Cow second.

How would you address that

Mike

 

Many other states have different prices for Bull / Cow. New Mexico has different prices for Bull / Cow and standard / high demand tags in addition. 4 different prices for elk.

 

You pay the highest cost then get refunded the difference if you are drawn for the lesser tag. If you apply online, like 70% of the people do now anyway, it's not an issue.

[Hooked_on_Coues]

DB,

I need to think on that a while

1 problem I see up front is the second choice issue

In the past I allways put in for 22 Arc. Bull first choice

Then 22 Arc Cow second.

How would you address that

Mike

 

Many other states have different prices for Bull / Cow. New Mexico has different prices for Bull / Cow and standard / high demand tags in addition. 4 different prices for elk.

 

You pay the highest cost then get refunded the difference if you are drawn for the lesser tag. If you apply online, like 70% of the people do now anyway, it's not an issue.

 

Dangit Bull, I am in the 30% this year. Have to pay it all. Procrastination got me! Now I have to come up with $1400. Crap crap crap. At least I will get most of it back. NO, wait! I didn't mean that! I am GOING to draw tags this year!

[azryan]

DB,

I need to think on that a while

1 problem I see up front is the second choice issue

In the past I allways put in for 22 Arc. Bull first choice

Then 22 Arc Cow second.

How would you address that

Mike

 

Many other states have different prices for Bull / Cow. New Mexico has different prices for Bull / Cow and standard / high demand tags in addition. 4 different prices for elk.

 

You pay the highest cost then get refunded the difference if you are drawn for the lesser tag. If you apply online, like 70% of the people do now anyway, it's not an issue.

 

 

 

Colorado is also the same way....I agree with DB on this one.....

 

Im looking at what I want to do for college my first option was to become a game warden but after seeing what they start you out at for a 4 year degree...its kind of a slap in the face....the salary definetly turned me away. But then that raises another question in my mind. Should we base our jobs off of money or doing something that is our passion? (TLH's point just worded a little different).

 

Another thing what mattys281 said.....what is not becoming more expensive. The price of living is increasing there is no denying that. Its something I have accepted. I just dont expect anything will get cheaper. The trend right now backs that up.

[ghost hunter]

The only way that you can break the cycle, is to have G&F's funding come from another source. Right now it is based on license and tags sales. BUT what if it was based on a 'general sales tax'. The idea was offered a year or two ago and seemed to just disappear into the night. Not sure why. Missouri does this and their G&F has plenty to operate on.

 

The down side is that with other people contributing, you also are going to get demands from them as to how it is spent.

 

And no, I don't like a tiered pricing scale based on whether it is a "standard" hunt, a "quality" hunt or a "high demand" hunt.

[Diamondbackaz]

I have been advcating premium hunts for a couple of years now. It almost got through until the commission voted it down.

[Huntn coues]

The system is working just fine. Don't start fiddle farten around with it now cause.... I have been getting tags