HERE'S YOUR CHANCE TO VOICE YOUR OPINION!!!!

[rthrbhntng]

Those of you who are following the Department's move to provide "more hunter opportunity" need to be involved in the meetings scheduled to take place during the next few weeks. More and more the Departments activities are being determined by surveys and public meetings which often have poor attendance. Sportsmen need to show up!

 

Please read the message below, show up at the scheduled meetings, and make your feelings known. If sportsmen do not show up for these meetings, we will have missed an important opportunity to raise questions, provide our input and address any concerns you might have. To do otherwise, allows others to speak for you, and means you will just have to accept the outcome of the meetings! Please spread the word!

 

 

From: Wildlife Views, May 24, 2007

 

Hunt structures evolving to provide more hunting opportunities

Public meetings set to gather hunter input on hunt guidelines

 

How important is it to you to get drawn for a tag more frequently?

 

A two-pronged telephone and Internet survey conducted by Responsive Management of Harrisonburg, Va., for the Arizona Game and Fish Department shows the majority of last year’s hunt applicants believe that more opportunity to go hunting is essential to keeping them in the game.

 

The department is continuing to address ways to increase hunter opportunity, and hunters will have a more practical opportunity to see their views translated into specific hunt management proposals during the upcoming hunt guideline meetings being conducted in June by the Arizona Game and Fish Department.

 

Those hunt guideline meetings will all be from 6-8 p.m. at the following dates and locations:

 

Pinetop, June 5, Arizona Game and Fish Department Pinetop regional office, 2878 E. White Mountain Blvd.

 

 

Flagstaff, June 5, Arizona Game and Fish Department Flagstaff regional office, 3500 S. Lake Mary Road.

 

 

Prescott, June 6, Yavapai County Supervisors Office, 1015 Fair Street.

 

 

Tucson, June 6, Arizona Game and Fish Department Tucson regional office, 555 N. Greasewood Road.

 

 

Safford, June 7, Safford City Hall Annex, 808 8th Ave.

 

 

Sierra Vista, June 7, Buena High School, 5225 Buena School Boulevard.

 

 

Mesa, June 18, Arizona Game and Fish Department Mesa regional office, 7200 E. University Drive.

 

 

Phoenix, June 18, Wildlife Building at the Arizona State Fairgrounds, 1826 W. McDowell Road.

 

 

Yuma, June 20, Arizona Game and Fish Department Yuma regional office, 9140 E. 28th St.

 

 

Kingman, June 20, Arizona Game and Fish Department Kingman regional office, 5325 N. Stockton Hill Road.

 

 

Payson, June 21, Best Western Payson Inn (the night before the Game and Fish Commission meeting there), 801 N. Beeline Highway (Highway 87).

 

 

Page, June 21, National Park Service Headquarters conference room, 691 Scenic View Drive (just off Highway 89 between the Denny’s and the Maverick).

The hunt guidelines, which will be brought before the Arizona Game and Fish Commission for approval at its Aug. 10-11 meeting in Flagstaff, will guide department wildlife managers for the next two years when crafting their specific unit-by-unit hunt recommendations.

 

Game Branch Chief Leonard Ordway explains that the desire for big game hunters to get into the field more often is one of the driving forces behind the department’s ongoing efforts to craft the hunt guidelines.

 

Hunters should keep in mind that this is the first year of having the bi-annual hunt guideline meetings in June rather have having the traditional hunt guideline meetings every January.

 

“We are in the process of developing the draft guidelines for the next two years. We want all hunters to assist the department in determining our future in hunting. We welcome their input during the hunt guideline development,” Ordway said.

 

Once the draft hunt guideline package is assembled, it will be posted on the department’s Web site, and the information will also be distributed via the department’s e-news efforts.

 

For those who don’t already receive the department’s free Wildlife News or Hunting Highlights e-newsletters but want to keep abreast of this process as well as receiving other timely information, you can sign up at azgfd.gov/signup.

[Lance]

I think their question is tricky. So know this before you go!

 

"More hunter opportunity" means lowering the success rates of hunters by degrading the quality of our hunts! Therefore being able to flood the hunts with hunters cause the hunt stinks and success will be low.

 

We have already seen them do this, or try to do this in several ways and no one has liked any of it!

 

I see it like this.- There are always many people, always complaining about not getting drawn. So, the G&F says, lets make these people happy by making it easier to draw a tag. Thats a nice thought, BUT.... the majority of these people are not getting drawn because they are putting in for hunts that are hard to draw! Why are they doing this? Because these are GOOD, QUALITY HUNTS with more TROPHY opportunity and that is what they want!

If they did not want "Good, Quality, Trophy" opportunities then they would apply for all thoes hunts that are 50% to 100% chance of draw and be able to draw something every year, or more often.

 

So.... It is clear that we cant give everyone who wants a early bull tag what they want. Same goes with mulies in the Bab and Dec. whitetail. But!.... It is also clear that degrading the quality of the hunts that these complaining people don't want, and are not applying for in the first place is NOT the answer either!

 

So be carfull what you wish for!

We only have so many animals to go around.

The only REAL answer is to have more animals to hunt! So go and vote for habitat improvement! Volunteer for wildlife projects! PRAY for rain!

 

More rules and regulations won't make it rain.

 

 

Lance

[Red Rabbit]

Thanks for the heads up. I should be able to attend in Flag.

 

I have a differing viewpoint regarding the "opportunity" survey results.

 

I have added up application numbers for the 2006 WT hunts.

 

My feelings are that people will put in for what the would like to hunt for their first choice, and what they would settle for their second choice. Third through fifth choices are almost a futile/moot choices as not many permits remain in the second round of the draw. The department uses this same first choice rationale to allocate archery vs rifle hunts and bull vs cow hunts.

 

Permits have been shifted to the November and October hunts and these will be considered "opportunity" hunts. December hunts will be considered quality/trophy hunts. 15,345 permits were issued in 2006 for the Oct/Nov opportunity hunts. 1875 permits were issued for the December Quality hunts. In other words, 89% of the permits were allocated as opportunity hunt permits, and 11% for quality hunt permits.

 

For the Oct/Nov hunts, there were 10,097 first choice applicants for the 15,345 permits. For the quality Dec hunts, there were 10,474 first choice applicants for the 1875 Dec permits. In other words, 51% of the applicants applied for the quality Dec hunts and 49% for the early opportunity hunts. 51% of the first choice applicants would like to draw for only 11% of the tags. 51% of the applicants would like a quality trophy hunt over an opportunity hunt. 10474 hunters applied for only 1875 permits, for a mathematical draw percentage of 18%. 10,097 first choice hunters applied for 15,345 permits for an overall draw average of 100% (more permits than applicants).

 

The percentage of hunters applying for a quality trophy WT hunt (51%) (and in my mind saying they prefer a quality trophy hunt), does not coincide with the survey results that showed that about 35% said harvesting a trophy was more important and 65% said having more frequent opportunities to hunt was more important. Actions may speak louder than words = applications speak louder than surveys.

 

I realize that having 51% of the permits in Dec to reflect demand (or 35% to reflect the survey) will not result in a quality hunt due to crowding, and the buck population could not support such a shift in permits to Dec and still maintain an age class of quality WT. But I do feel the analysis of applicants support the concept of having some WT hunt units managed for quality rather than all for opportunity, as seems to be the trend. One can look at the buck:doe ratios and see the steady decline in the last 60 years from 66:100 in 1946 to 27:100 in 2006.

 

It would be interesting to see the data showing the numbers applying for unit 12 and 13 mule deer tags (quality) vs south of the river (opportunity), and what people applying north of the river first choice did for second choice. Would this data support the survey results of opportunity over quality?

 

Doug~RR

 

(I posted this on other forums)

[mattys281]

I know that everybody has a different point of view & varying desires for the hunt seasons, but I think a group voicing a single opinion will carry much more weight than a bunch of individuals. Perhaps we should plan on discussing this at the upcoming CW picnic & then go hammer on them at one of those meetings together.

[Hooked_on_Coues]

RR,

 

Do you think the second choice variable scews the numbers in itself because its in the first pass?

 

There would be fewer applications for the Dec. hunts if the second pass was done after each choice instead of on the third choice. Its like a freebee now. Why not apply for the Dec hunt first choice? I don't see the downside because you would still draw second depending on your ranking.

 

Is this logical?

[Red Rabbit]

Hooked on Coues,

 

I would tend to agree with you. If the first two hunt choices were seperated into seperate draw passes, it would more likely reflect peoples first desire. But G&F has used the first choice as expressing desire to validate shifting of archery cow elk tags to rifle cow tags last year. Isn't what people put down first choice what the really would want?

 

I would be one that would still put a December Coues or Kaibab hunt first choice though, even if the choices were run separately. Under the current system, I have sometimes put a November hunt second choice to help assure that I would get to hunt, but I would still prefer a quality December hunt over a more crowded November hunt that has less deer movement and bucks not out beginning to find does. G&F has the conclusion that people prefer the opportunity to hunt over the preference to hunt quality/trophy, but I still feel the draw chooices do not support that conclusion. If hunters' first preference was just to hunt, then their first choice more likely would be an Oct or Nov hunt.

 

Perhaps the reason also that many put in for the October and November WT hunts is for the chance to go hunting once each year, considering the low draw odds for elk and antelope and sheep and buffalo.

 

If AZ's game population was higher and people had the chance to hunt some species every year, I bet the survey results would not be what they are. But we should face the fact that AZ is arid and cannot its habitat cannot support the populations (game or people) other states have. For the same aridness reason, snow skiers suffer in our state. Looking at the declining buc:doe ratios shows me that the population continually cannot support the number of hunters. Maybe we need to realize that we cannot hunt every year in AZ. G&F wants us to be able to hunt each year, but to do so would mean hunts that give lower success rates, like the idea of having an archery elk hunt in Dec as was originally proposed a year ago.

 

Doug~RR

[TREESTANDMAN]

Well put Doug. I think you bring up a really good point that application statistics speak much louder than survey results, and I might add, imo (leading survey results).

[ThomC]

This post should be at top of the list of every hunter. Probably a sticky with a big attention banner. Go to the AZ G&F site azgfd.gov and click on the new hunt guidlines. It is 16 pages of reading on how the dept is going to regulate hunting in the next 2 years. I have skimmed it and for the most part it looks okay. There a few things that need to be questioned, cleared up. Now is the time to read, go to the meetings and give input or forever quit crying.

[Red Rabbit]

The 2008 -2010 hunt guidelines are on the G&F website . Study these proposals carefully. More G&F medicine for increased OPPORTUNITY. Go to a meeting to express your reasoned opinion.

 

http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/hunt_guidelines.shtml

 

Propose up to 5 % of the whitetail tags as December. Last year the recommendation was to offer 5-10% in the late season. This year in 2007, about 9% of the tags are for December hunts in most units. So, let’s cut December tag numbers in half, crowd the early seasons even more to decrease harvest and validate increasing tag numbers (ie opportunity) further.

 

Keep Whitetail units 6a, 23, 30b, 31, 36b for alternative management units to harvest older age class bucks with up to 30% of the total harvest during the late season.

In 36C, 12% harvest in Dec. In 2005 16% harvest was in Dec. In 6a for 2006 16 of 76 deer were harvested in December for 21% of the total harvest. Does this mean that permits will be shifted from Oct and Nov back to Dec to more approach 30%?

 

At least 2% of the general deer tags to juniors-only. Now, the recommendation is for at least 3%. Still need more Junior tags, in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Is permitting the Kaibab archery hunts in the future? Laying the groundwork.

 

From page 9C of the 2008-2010 Hunt Guidelines:

 

“Archery deer harvest will be managed not to exceed 20% of the overall harvest in a unit. When archery deer harvest meets or exceeds 20% of overall harvest, the Wildlife manager will recommend reductions in archery hunt opportunity according to the following prescriptions, to include permitting harvest. Permitted harvest once prescribed will be managed to meet demand by weapon type.”

 

(2006 archery data not available)

 

In 2005, archery harvest in 12a was106 and rifle harvest was 640, for a % harvest by archery of 14%.

 

However, in 2004, archery harvest in 12a was177 and rifle harvest was 416, for a % harvest by archery of 30%.

[DesertBull]

When they say opportunity, what they really mean is the opportunity to sell more tags, kill less deer, and appease the huggers.

[Hooked_on_Coues]

I didn't see anything that indicated any changes with the current NR 10% cap. Is there any talk about this?

[jnobleinaz]

I also think that the way they did these surveys was a little tricky.. They are asking these questions and a lot of people are not thinking of the outcome after they have typed or sent in their answers. When someone is frustrated at not drawing a tag they are inclined to put down more opp. They should have had the answer to type in more opp with a crowded crappy hunt. I myself do not like to hunt with tons of people in the field so I always vote against these. I just don't understand why they are messing with this stuff all it will do is frustrate people. There are people that like to go on the early hunts and that is great. So adding more hunters to their hunt and taking away from the trophy hunts just makes no sense.

[Red Rabbit]

Hooked on coues,

I have not heard anything about a change to the 10% NR cap.

I have heard some people are trying to get the 20% top-BP set-aside modified so that some (half?) of the NR tags are available in the regular draw and not all taken in the 20% pass.

 

Doug~RR

[audsley]

What does everyone think about changing So. Az whitetail hunts from 10 days to only 7?

 

In other words, eliminating the 2nd weekend of the November hunt?

[Coues79]

What does everyone think about changing So. Az whitetail hunts from 10 days to only 7?

 

In other words, eliminating the 2nd weekend of the November hunt?

Don't like it. I put in for the November hunt because I know that I can hold out on the FIRST weekend and if I feel like taking a smaller buck, still have the opportunity to do that in the SECOND weekend. Most of the hunters out there are only able to hunt on the weekends anyways, not to mention some of the juniors that are out there hunting on this two weekend hunt. I mean really, how long can you justify pulling a kid out of school just to go hunting? Weekends are the opportunity for the majority of hunters to be able to do their hunting.