New Guidelines G&F meeting

[Sneaker]

Went to the Kingman meeting tonight. 5 hunters came. Some good info and discussion on the guidelines. I let my stances be known.
At the end they brought up a few items for future consideration that they just wanted opinion on, they included possibly banning instant notification text message type game cameras, and possibly instituting primitive versions of muzzleloader and archery hunts. The thought would be replacing some standard muzzy or archery hunts with these primitive weapon hunts some of the time... I don't think the primitive archery hunt would be a very good idea or have very good support.

[Swivelhead]

Did the commissioners define primitive muzzleloader/primitive archery equipment?

[elkaholic]

how many types of primitive muzzleloaders and archery equipment are there

 

flint and traditional stick and string I'd guess

 

like they can fit any more seasons into any bracket - as it is now the big game animals are pretty much hunted from august till dec

 

 

why make a special season when these type of weapons can be used during almost any general hunt for either archery or muzzleloader

 

It doesn't make any sense to have a special hunt just for a defined primitive weapon!

 

but as we all know - once its discussed it gets presented or they give a survey and pass what they like -when they like

[Swivelhead]

how many types of primitive muzzleloaders and archery equipment are there

 

flint and traditional stick and string I'd guess

 

like they can fit any more seasons into any bracket - as it is now the big game animals are pretty much hunted from august till dec

 

 

why make a special season when these type of weapons can be used during almost any general hunt for either archery or muzzleloader

 

It doesn't make any sense to have a special hunt just for a defined primitive weapon!

 

but as we all know - once its discussed it gets presented or they give a survey and pass what they like -when they like

 

 

 

Muzzle loader and archery tackle was considerably less capable when experimental seasons were granted many years ago. Unsure where AZGF is going with this discussion.

 

Could be they are discussing muzzleloaders w/o scopes, no inlines, no sabot's. Unsure how they'd handle the archery side. Definitely not a fan of separating the archery crowd by wheel/ non wheel. Archers are one group.

[Becker]

While I understand a guys perspective about hunting with more primitive weapons I am really against limiting others that choose to use more advanced but same type of weapons. I am one that likes to be sure I am making an ethical type shot and killing the animal. Not letting me put a scope on my muzzleloader? What the hairy does that accomplish. IMO that means less accurate hunters in the field wounding more animals. I'm not saying that it can't be done and you can't shoot well out to 150 yards or so with that but come on! This is just my opinion. We all know that not every hunter is going to put in the time or have the "ethics" on their true capabilities. Traditional archery??? That's a whole other can of worms for me. There are very good traditional shooters. However, go to the archery shoots and compare the scores of trad shooters to wheelie bows. It's just not the same and never will be. Limiting other guys that really want to be proficient in accuracy seems backwards to me. Like mentioned above...... Nothing is stopping people from using what they want when it comes to primitive weapons. By why make me suffer if I want to use more technology????

[Sneaker]

They didn't define them, they just wanted input on if it was something they should pursue.

[Swivelhead]

They didn't define them, they just wanted input on if it was something they should pursue.

Interesting. Have not heard of any group advocating change with regard to archery/muzzleloader equipment here in AZ.

[DesertBull]

Went to the Kingman meeting tonight. 5 hunters came. Some good info and discussion on the guidelines. I let me stances be known.

At the end they brought up a few items for future consideration that they just wanted opinion on, they included possibly banning instant notification text message type game cameras, and possibly instituting primitive versions of muzzleloader and archery hunts. The thought would be replacing some standard muzzy or archery hunts with these primitive weapon hunts some of the time... I don't think the primitive archery hunt would be a very good idea or have very good support.

 

 

These *&%$# are always looking for something to ban. Are they bored or power hungry or just egomaniacs?

 

Just manage the herds and the birds and quit trying to define fair chase.

[Swivelhead]

 

Went to the Kingman meeting tonight. 5 hunters came. Some good info and discussion on the guidelines. I let me stances be known.

At the end they brought up a few items for future consideration that they just wanted opinion on, they included possibly banning instant notification text message type game cameras, and possibly instituting primitive versions of muzzleloader and archery hunts. The thought would be replacing some standard muzzy or archery hunts with these primitive weapon hunts some of the time... I don't think the primitive archery hunt would be a very good idea or have very good support.

 

 

These *&%$# are always looking for something to ban. Are they bored or power hungry or just egomaniacs?

 

Just manage the herds and the birds and quit trying to define fair chase.

 

My guess is G&F is "fishing". Probably looking to increase hunter opportunity at the expense of a quality experience.

[Sneaker]

Well the other one they had on the slide that I didn't even bring up here because I thought is was so dumb it wasn't even worth it was to decrease the number of early rifle bull hunts offered every year(they mentioned leaving them only in the 4 premium units). When I asked her where these ideas came from, she literally made it sound like she just got one random individual email for each of these consideration items where someone suggested this type of action be considered or taken. There had to be more random "suggestion" emails to the guidelines team throughout the year, so interesting that they would pick these three weird ones as the cream of the crop to get public comment about.

[Swivelhead]

Well the other one they had on the slide that I didn't even bring up here because I thought is was so dumb it wasn't even worth it was to decrease the number of early rifle bull hunts offered every year. When I asked her where these ideas came from, she literally made it sound like she just got one random individual email for each of these consideration items where someone suggested this type of action be considered or taken. There had to be more random "suggestion" emails to the guidelines team throughout the year, so interesting that they would pick these three weird ones as the cream of the crop to get public comment about.

Actually, it makes perfect sense if G&F is trying to increase hunter opportunity. ERB hunts run about 90% success as opposed to LRB being 20-30%. Every tag taken from ERB can put 3-4 tags in the LRB hunt without affecting the annual take. Hunt quality for the late crowd definitely would suffer.

[DesertBull]

And if they get rid of early bull rifle they will set their sights on archery and ML next.

 

It's like what they really want is to issue a crap ton of tags and have a really low success rate. Might as well just issue camping and photography tags

[Coach]

 

Well the other one they had on the slide that I didn't even bring up here because I thought is was so dumb it wasn't even worth it was to decrease the number of early rifle bull hunts offered every year. When I asked her where these ideas came from, she literally made it sound like she just got one random individual email for each of these consideration items where someone suggested this type of action be considered or taken. There had to be more random "suggestion" emails to the guidelines team throughout the year, so interesting that they would pick these three weird ones as the cream of the crop to get public comment about.

Actually, it makes perfect sense if G&F is trying to increase hunter opportunity. ERB hunts run about 90% success as opposed to LRB being 20-30%. Every tag taken from ERB can put 3-4 tags in the LRB hunt without affecting the annual take. Hunt quality for the late crowd definitely would suffer.

 

 

This kind of reminds me of what has happened to coues hunting during the rut. Using 24A as an example, there used to be 350 permits in late December. Now there's 50 or less and the remaining 300 got doubled and then some in earlier October/November hunts.

 

So now you've got 700+ tag hunts early on where hunters are all over each other and the animals are hard to find and only the lucky few get to hunt the rut.

 

That model has pretty much ruined 24A for me. I'd hate to see the same thing happen to Unit 1, 3a/c & 27 bull hunts.