Elk-Rifle before Archery

[Heat]

Let's make one thing absolutely clear, I am NOT advocating an earlier season for archery hunters. Any time within the 2 or 3rd week of September is fine and dandy with me. Many bulls are extremely vulnerable at this time, particularly if you know what the heck is going on! You don't need a bull to bugle to kill him. Many times they are more vulnerable at this time because they don't have a giant harem of cows. My preference is for them to just leave it alone and if anything quit the crap they started last year with other weapons going before archery, period, end of story!

 

One thing is consistent with this proposal...the archery hunters are again taking it in the shorts! First we lose our ability to take a doe in January, which they said we would get back when numbers came up, clearly that hasn't happened. Then we are forced to accept permitted archery hunts. It's clear that has only had limited success due to the shuffling and back and forth on tag numbers and units that this applies to. Then we are given an arbitrary harvest percentage of 20% of the total harvest, anything above that and we lose a season. Haven't seen many if any seasons added for archery when success is low! Then we see that number miraculously got to 15-20% of the total harvest, again out of the blue with nothing to substantiate that number. We constantly fight to keep our tags in September for elk when the Department just wants to sell more tags for November because they know darn well, they can get a bunch of people in the field, sell a ton of permits, and nobody kills jack squat!

 

I'm getting pretty tired of this constant assault! I sure wish Tice Supplee was still the Game Branch Chief. She was a dedicated archery hunter and we never had to deal with any of this nonsense when she was around!

[Str8Shot]

Any proposal of that nature is completely back asswards! I also agree with the point made above that this could be a result of the archery hunters complaining about the season starting too early. Often times their point isn't made well and the Department will use that wishy washyness to do whatever it is they've been trying to accomplish. In this case it seems like the Department has been heck Bent on putting some sort of Premium Hunt out there for elk. Looks like they're going after it through the backdoor!

 

I don't agree with any general elk hunts being held before archery or muzzleloader. Whatever happened to the notion of primitive weapons being at a disadvantage?

 

I'll be sure to make my comments to the Department and Commission when the time comes.

I have seen too many years in the last 10 where on all the various hunting forums Archery hunters were complaining of how hard the hunts were and that they should move the dates back a week or two in order to more coincide with the RUT... So they want first crack at the best bulls and the benefits of more Rut activity... With out game and fish trying to compensate for the effect pushing the hunts back would create on the other hunts? That also makes no Sense.

The Bows and Muzzle loaders of today are a far cry from what they were 20 - 30 years ago and IMO are far from the idea of what primitive once was. The effective range and accuracy is easily double of what it was 20 years ago when you rarely heard of guys taking shot of over 50 - 60 yards with a bow and over 100 yards with a muzzle loader.

If archery hunters want to be moved back a week or two in hopes of having more rut activity, I see no issue with letting some of the muzzle loader hunts go before them... General Rifle hunts IMO should not be put first period. If They do offer a limited number of tags for such an early rifle hunt, you can bet that it is an agenda being lobbied for by guys with $$$$$ and outfitters who want to sooner or later create premier Hunts at higher cost in order to use income as a way to increase opportunity for the more wealthy.

[Str8Shot]

That's weird, I definitely did not write the second quote! Talk about putting words in my mouth!

LOL .... did a cut and paste when I realized I was in the quote box and it made it look that way .... Went back and fixed it

[darrcolburn]

The unit 9 hunt this year was slipped in via the back door by a few of the commissioners last year with no public imput. They have no data to show how this will affect success rates or the age/size of bulls taken. It does not make sense to put the highest success rate weapon types in front of archery which is hands down the lowest success rate weapon type. Archery hunters had better let their voice be heard or be prepared to deal with the changes. Even with the advances in archery equipment most archery elk I would bet are taken under 50 yards. The mordern inline scoped muzzle loaders are capable of shooting several hundred yards easy. The success rates of the archery hunt will go down if the rifle/muzzleloader trophy hunts are before the archery hunt. I plan on attending the meeting in Mesa tonight. If you can't attend please email the commisioners and the department and let them know how you feel.

[Swivelhead]

The fact that there are relatively few early rifle/muzzle loader tags leads me to believe that this change will not have too much effect on the archery hunt. I believe the early rifle/muzzle loader tag holders will be very unappreciative of all the early archery tag holders out pre-scouting during their hunt dates. Wonder what the early rifle/muzzy crowd think of this proposal. Doubt they want to give up their premium dates (late Sept-early Oct) either. Not sure whats going on. Again, I say leave it alone but as an archer, I don't think it's a big deal as proposed. Sent my .02 to the AZGF

[Sneaker]

Bad Idea

[.270]

spend enough time hunting elk in the rut and you'll realize that each year there is period of a few days where elk go crazy. it isn't consistent with every herd of elk in a unit at the same time, but if you watch for it and spend enough time with the elk you'll, see what i'm saying. there are a lot of herds that wander around in the same general area and from time they will bunch up into maybe a couple hundred elk with several big herd bulls and a buncha sattelites and things get stupid. personally i think it has something to do with the moon and a big number of the cows heating up at the same time. anyway, over the past few decades, the rut seems to be moving back some each year. probably has something to do with the drought and september being a little warmer and drier right now than in the past. for archery hunters, i don't see this a real bad deal. the real crazy time seems to be closer to the end of september and maybe early october. the muzzloader hunts and early rifle hunts only have a couple dozen permits per unit. i don't see that being a big detrement. if i still bowhunted elk, i'd see this is as potentially a good thing. don't have a clue what the azgfd has in mind and i kinda think they don't either most of the time. but i'd hold off being too critical of this move. could be a good thing and if it is the bunny cops will try to change it. Lark.

[AZMSK]

This has to do with a couple of the commissioners who think its not fair that the archery hunters get first crack at the bigger bulls at least that's the reasons they gave for moving the unit 9 hunt this year. Considering the success rate the early rifle hunters have over 80% in most units that have the early hunt, I would bet they shoot just as many trophy class bulls if not more as they do on the archery hunt. There is no good reason to move a high success rifle hunt in front of a much lower success archery hunt both weapon types have had great opportunities at trophy class bulls with the current hunt structure dates.

[.270]

the past few years, a buncha the biggest bulls have come from the late rifles hunts. you hafta exclude the rich guy posse hunters. those elk don't count. getting an early rifle or muzzleloader tag has such poor odds that anyone banking on getting drawn, no matter how many bone-us points they have, is gonna be disapointed a lot. but if i did have that tag i'd rather hunt later in the rut than earlier. this looks to me like a good thing for archers. it's been my experience that the biggest bulls, i mean the 13+ year old, 1100lb thugs with trees for horns, become so completely nocturnal during the rut that you're either gonna hafta get real lucky or use a spotlight to get em. a lot of the true giants are so old they are no longer interested in the rut too. they go find em a nice dark cool canyon and get away from all that nonsense, another reason they kill more of the big elk on the late hunts. they kill a buncha really good bulls on the early firearm hunts, but you don't see near as many really big bulls from october as you do in december. during the late hunt, if it gets really cold up high, you can glass em up across a canyon especially at daylight and when the long shadows start in the afternoon. and you have the added advantage of extra numbers of hunters that jump little herds of bulls up and they end up crossing a meadow or prarie to get away and are seen by other hunters. lots of really big bulls get busted that way. Lark.

[JLW]

good buy to archery deer as we know it...

we all know it was the corn that got all the high success rate.... just wondering why that bait ban didn't work effectively?

at least we don't have cwd thanks to the ban

 

http://azgfdportal.az.gov/PortalImages/files/hunting/guidelines/HuntGuidelines2016-2018-5-7-2015DRAFT.pdf

[elkslare]

I think it is a bad idea, AZ has done good with managing there elk herds in the past. This is why it is such a go to place. they have great hunts and tremendous bulls.

Why mess it all up.

I do not know how many people they will have on these hunts, but has there been any study's on what it can do to the elk herds if there is that kind of pleasure before

the rut and during the rut????

It just seems to me they are gambling with there elk herds a bit, and with everyone's years of points and $$$ they have been putting in for year after year.

 

I emailed my

[naturebob]

I am with Lark. There is 3-4 days where You can almost walk up to them and they don't care. Prime of the rut is late Sept. (white mtns) anyway........BOB!

[idgaf]

I know it is likely a bad idea, but part of me likes the idea. As a dyed in wool archery hunter it will eliminate a lot of the guys that only hunt archery elk because its in the rut and send them back to rifle hunting where they are a better fit.

[backcountry_brad]

I just sent them a fat email. This stuff really pisses me off

[111]

In 2006 the archery elk hunt started on Sep 22nd. They were still able to fit all the additional hunts in afterwards. Not sure why the AZGFD would recommend such a ridiculous idea....