Shawn Wagner wins appeal

[Redman]

 

 

Let me ask you a question; If you were under investigation for any crime and the investigators screwed up the investigation and you were found not guilty haw many officers would be on their site complaining saying that dude was guilty as heck? Now same case and my question is; how would you feel if your friends was talking behind your back, all those sleepless nights, and finger pointing. Would you be mad s heck? Would you file suit? Would want your life back?

 

Now I am NOT saying he is or isn't guilty. I am only commenting on the court case and investigation prior to the hearings. Again from MY experience with state internal investigations, this case screams wrongful persecution and retaliation from his superiors.

 

He won his case and they failed to firmly place wrongdoing on his actions. LETS get over it and move on! There is more important things to concentrate my time and energy on that will benefit me, my family and our way of life.

 

If I was under investigation for a crime that I committed while holding a position that prosecuted others for similar acts..... I would resign.

 

If you want to move on... don't read this thread, don't comment. Simple your involvement is what YOU do.

 

Pointing your finger AT me won't work on me. I simply stated what needed to be said, sorry for not being in line with you or others. I started with "Now I am NOT saying he is or isn't guilty" By making this statement I am CYA to a slander suite as he was found "not Guilty" Court cases are won and lost on technicalities every day all over the country. I would hope we as hunters would remain calm although deep inside we are outraged beyond belief. I understand we as a society needs to hold LE officials to a higher standard but again I will not print anything that can be used in court to pull money outa my backside.

 

I will come right out and say it!!!! YOU ALL NEED TO WATCH WHAT YOU PRINT AS YOU ARE LIABLE FOR IT. Wagoner's case was won with the E-mails and memos from his supervisors along with the disciplinary report. That in and of it's self should warn you of what and how you write and publish your thoughts.

 

I don't want to read and post on a thread involving one of you being sued for your thoughts.

 

 

Hunt hard, stay safe, and enjoy your selves!

 

 

 

never pointed the finger at you... simply said if you want to move on (as you said in your original post because you have more important things to do.....).... then do....... oddly you replied again....

[murfys69law]

the game animals in Arizona OUR resource... what I am supposed to do if a see a hunter poach an animal... just worry about myself?

I agree redman. The animal he and his friends harvested illegally could've gone to someone else that pays his wages and money to help with conservation of these resources.

[Red Sparky]

Here are my questions from what I read of the case:

 

1: He had a valid hunting license and shot a bull but had to leave?

2: He thought it was a lethal shot and the animal would be dead when found?

3: His buddies tracked the animal to recover it for him?

4: He assigned his tag to them since he thought he shot it and would be dead when found?

5: His buddies found the bull still alive in a pool of blood?

6: They killed it and put his tag on it?

7: When did they call him to tell him it was alive?

8: They thought it was morally right to end the animals suffering rather than wait for him to come back and shoot it?

8a: Why didn't they put their tag on it?

9: His supervisors started a formal investigation after an informal investigation that did not give him the same rights, where he refused to answer?

10: Doesn't the 5th amendment of the constitution allow us not to make any statements not to incriminate ourself?

11: He was disciplined for the memo sent outside the chain of command and not the violations?

12: The court found his supervisors violated his due process rights and retaliated against him?

 

Does that about sum it up?

[coues7]

Here are my questions from what I read of the case:

 

1: He had a valid hunting license and shot a bull but had to leave?

2: He thought it was a lethal shot and the animal would be dead when found?

3: His buddies tracked the animal to recover it for him?

4: He assigned his tag to them since he thought he shot it and would be dead when found?

5: His buddies found the bull still alive in a pool of blood?

6: They killed it and put his tag on it?

7: When did they call him to tell him it was alive?

8: They thought it was morally right to end the animals suffering rather than wait for him to come back and shoot it?

8a: Why didn't they put their tag on it?

9: His supervisors started a formal investigation after an informal investigation that did not give him the same rights, where he refused to answer?

10: Doesn't the 5th amendment of the constitution allow us not to make any statements not to incriminate ourself?

11: He was disciplined for the memo sent outside the chain of command and not the violations?

12: The court found his supervisors violated his due process rights and retaliated against him?

 

Does that about sum it up?

 

Many of those are statements with question marks at the end......just saying.

[deserttacoma84]

the game animals in Arizona OUR resource... what I am supposed to do if a see a hunter poach an animal... just worry about myself?

 

No. But did you see his buddies kill it? Did you see the transfer of said tag? Or did you just read about it like the rest of us. Pretty sure there is a phone number to call should you see someone poaching to report it. They probably will take all of your information and may or may not follow up on said incident that you choose to call in. At that point you have done your job as a law abiding citizen. Unless you are a game warden then you wouldnt need to worry about the outcome.

 

I was more specifically referring to those that have had "bad encounters" and voice their opinions about not doing anything wrong. There are officers that are much more strict in interpretation of the law versus others. Some may give you a pass at speeding 15 mph over the posted speed limit. Some may choose to write you a ticket for going 5mph over because technically you are in violation.

[Red Sparky]

Wanting to make sure I read it right and not miss something. So I am questioning my interpretation since I am not a lawyer and it is like reading Shakespeare for me.

[5guyshunting]

R.I.P.

[deserttacoma84]

If you report me for dui, the officer is not seeing me driving under the influence unless im actually caught driving.

 

From what I understand reports made to said agencies are given a duration of time to investigate based on the seriousness of the offense. In someones earlier post they said a warden cited them for carrying their kids tag. Now if the law says the hunter must be in posession of their own tag then that officer obviously interpreted that to be the exact violation. Maybe his partner would have chosen to give him a warning. All im getting at is the law can be interpreted many different ways depending on the officer, judge lawyer etc. Im not saying its perfect by any means. Im not saying the investigation wasnt botched. Im not saying Wagner wasnt wrong. But I do know he has come on here to speak. And the rest of us unless we were there which i wasnt. Have only read transcripts of the investigation.

[520HUNT]

When you are given the responsibility to enforce laws, you are most definitely held to a higher standard. That is part of the job. You understand that you will be in the spotlight, and there have to make sure to rise above the law in all occasions. That is the responsibility that comes with the badge.

 

And in this case he broke the law and needs to resign. He is dragging the whole department down with him. Time to do the right thing, take your $100k and walk away, before you do more damage to this department.

[deserttacoma84]

Or call this lady if you see a poacher...

 

http://higherperspectives.com/kinessa-johnson/

[Elkhunter1]

the game animals in Arizona OUR resource... what I am supposed to do if a see a hunter poach an animal... just worry about myself?

You call the G&F and hope they don't screw up that investigation.

[Elkhunter1]

 

 

 

Let me ask you a question; If you were under investigation for any crime and the investigators screwed up the investigation and you were found not guilty haw many officers would be on their site complaining saying that dude was guilty as heck? Now same case and my question is; how would you feel if your friends was talking behind your back, all those sleepless nights, and finger pointing. Would you be mad s heck? Would you file suit? Would want your life back?

 

Now I am NOT saying he is or isn't guilty. I am only commenting on the court case and investigation prior to the hearings. Again from MY experience with state internal investigations, this case screams wrongful persecution and retaliation from his superiors.

 

He won his case and they failed to firmly place wrongdoing on his actions. LETS get over it and move on! There is more important things to concentrate my time and energy on that will benefit me, my family and our way of life.

 

If I was under investigation for a crime that I committed while holding a position that prosecuted others for similar acts..... I would resign.

 

If you want to move on... don't read this thread, don't comment. Simple your involvement is what YOU do.

 

Pointing your finger AT me won't work on me. I simply stated what needed to be said, sorry for not being in line with you or others. I started with "Now I am NOT saying he is or isn't guilty" By making this statement I am CYA to a slander suite as he was found "not Guilty" Court cases are won and lost on technicalities every day all over the country. I would hope we as hunters would remain calm although deep inside we are outraged beyond belief. I understand we as a society needs to hold LE officials to a higher standard but again I will not print anything that can be used in court to pull money outa my backside.

 

I will come right out and say it!!!! YOU ALL NEED TO WATCH WHAT YOU PRINT AS YOU ARE LIABLE FOR IT. Wagoner's case was won with the E-mails and memos from his supervisors along with the disciplinary report. That in and of it's self should warn you of what and how you write and publish your thoughts.

 

I don't want to read and post on a thread involving one of you being sued for your thoughts.

 

 

Hunt hard, stay safe, and enjoy your selves!

 

 

 

never pointed the finger at you... simply said if you want to move on (as you said in your original post because you have more important things to do.....).... then do....... oddly you replied again....

 

Thank you for clarifying that! I have never had issue with most of you guys and I don't want to see you in a world of hurt.

[firstcoueswas110]

do NOT call azgfd until the draw results are posted dang it.