Zeke-BE Report post Posted April 5, 2015 Jcubed sounds like he is game and fish, coming to the defense, and pointing out why are we still upset, your avatar is no pictures, no location, and subject is " usual stuff on the Internet". Combine all this it looks like a friend or colleague in the defense of G and F. But of course that is all speculation on my part and there are many people who have the same status like you. But the reason why everyone is so upset, is that we the hunters when doing something dumb and could be given a warring on certain matters, just get the iron fist from the authorities. I have friends who are no longer help out Gamefish because the way they were treated while trying to give them information on illegal matters. And now we have a warden who suspect Botch, but is now getting off from their own crime. If it is legally done right it's still upsetting! But on defense of the wardens friends, and in the spirt of the law and not the Letter! I probably would've put the elk down myself as well as the Spirt of the Law! But I would been cited as a poacher and they would've taken my bow and I hunting license! And guarantee I would've lost my case Priceless. Last I checked this is still a country with a judicial system and habeus corpus. His rights were violated, court found in his favor and issued a judgement. We have been over this before. I agree with you Jucube, but it's the irony in this!! This sounds like "hands up don't shoot". But this time the hand were up and the shot was made! I guess I wasn't around for the , "we have been over this before". Unless your talking about his rights in the first page of this thread. The system isn't perfect, his rights did get violated, and I guess he doesn't get in trouble for the real crime. But if I was part of the system, and new how it work and I wanted to help my buddie out couldn't i knowingly go in and violate his right and dismiss his true crime? Theoretically yes, but again there is no possible evidence this took place. If your not government then my guess maybe a lawyer?? Because it seems like your either passional about the law or you know Wagner? Again your causing me to guess! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deserttacoma84 Report post Posted April 5, 2015 Not a lawyer and nor a friend...pretty sure jcubed has never met the guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jcubed Report post Posted April 5, 2015 This is funny. Now the AZGFD purposefully went over the line to get charges dismissed and have a judgement issued against them. And I'm not a lawyer but thanks for the compliment! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Northern Pintail Report post Posted April 5, 2015 If i read the judgement right the first judge that ruled in Wagners favor said that no actual vilation occured. GF is horriible, starting with a draw system that does not work and a corrupt director that has nothing to do with the Wagner case. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5guyshunting Report post Posted April 6, 2015 Im not sure if "lawyer" is a compliment. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted April 6, 2015 Let me ask you a question; If you were under investigation for any crime and the investigators screwed up the investigation and you were found not guilty haw many officers would be on their site complaining saying that dude was guilty as heck? Now same case and my question is; how would you feel if your friends was talking behind your back, all those sleepless nights, and finger pointing. Would you be mad s heck? Would you file suit? Would want your life back? Now I am NOT saying he is or isn't guilty. I am only commenting on the court case and investigation prior to the hearings. Again from MY experience with state internal investigations, this case screams wrongful persecution and retaliation from his superiors. He won his case and they failed to firmly place wrongdoing on his actions. LETS get over it and move on! There is more important things to concentrate my time and energy on that will benefit me, my family and our way of life. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redman Report post Posted April 6, 2015 Let me ask you a question; If you were under investigation for any crime and the investigators screwed up the investigation and you were found not guilty haw many officers would be on their site complaining saying that dude was guilty as heck? Now same case and my question is; how would you feel if your friends was talking behind your back, all those sleepless nights, and finger pointing. Would you be mad s heck? Would you file suit? Would want your life back? Now I am NOT saying he is or isn't guilty. I am only commenting on the court case and investigation prior to the hearings. Again from MY experience with state internal investigations, this case screams wrongful persecution and retaliation from his superiors. He won his case and they failed to firmly place wrongdoing on his actions. LETS get over it and move on! There is more important things to concentrate my time and energy on that will benefit me, my family and our way of life. If I was under investigation for a crime that I committed while holding a position that prosecuted others for similar acts..... I would resign. If you want to move on... don't read this thread, don't comment. Simple your involvement is what YOU do. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.270 Report post Posted April 6, 2015 the problem here ain't that this guy won his little lawsuit. big deal, after his lawyers get their cut he can make a good down payment on a new pickup. what has hunters frustrated is that this guy, along with "OTHER" wardens, knowingly and intentionally, broke the law, a law that even joe hunter knows is there, and are still employed as game wardens. they are still judging folks, still writing tickets, still supposedly upholding the law. i know a guy that got cited because he had his kid's tag and license in his shirt pocket because his kid kept losing it, while they were deer hunting. this is the first law they knowingly and intentionally broke. the azgfd wants everyone to "RESPECT THEIR AUTHORI-TIE" but then they do things like this. and this pales in comparison to their head undercover embezzling 6 figures. what ever happened that? that got covered up real good and real quick. he oughta really be able to get a buncha money out of em. if anything happened it never made the papers. if you're gonna pack a badge, you hafta be dudley do right. if you're not gonna be him, then you should get into a different line o' work. and if you run an organization that has a buncha badge packers, you oughta run it in a fashion that is squeeky clean. in this case, one bad apple makes the rest of the whole barrel stink. like was mentioned earlier in this post, the kid that shot the sparrow had to go to court 5 times. where's the intelligence and leadership in this outfit? quit trying to defend things that are undefensible. Lark. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimmyc Report post Posted April 6, 2015 The botched investigation and the fact he gave his tag to another person, who then killed a wounded bull and used that tag on it, are two totally separate issues. My point exactly. Why did they not prosecute him for what he did wrong in a separate trial? It's the same as when a person get a DUI. Hires a high priced lawyer. They find some technicality that the officer didn't do properly and the person gets off. He still drive drunk and broke that law, but off Scott free because of big bucks. It's sucks, but it is what it is. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murfys69law Report post Posted April 6, 2015 I have to agree with several of you on here. Not defending Wagner either. He broke the law with his friends and they shoulda been prosecuted. Our judicial system sucks throughout this country. If you have money or friends in high places you can get off with murder. There are some people doing more time in prison for tax evasion than some people are for murder. I remember a case a few years back where an confessed murderer told the detectives where the weapon was he used. They needed this to make the case stick. He told them OK."Off the record the weapon is in a lake" They found it but because he said "Off the record" he walked. 3 weeks later he murdered a young girl in her teens. If this is justice then I am Ben Franklin. Same applies here. Wagner broke the law with his friends and got off scott free because of a technicality. It's BS. Hope you sleep well now Criminal. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
10Turkeys Report post Posted April 6, 2015 Well I guess it gets down to what is fair. I have heard two versions. If life was fair Elvis would still be alive and all the impersonator's would be dead. Fair is where a farmer takes his pig to win a blue ribbon. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elkhunter1 Report post Posted April 6, 2015 Let me ask you a question; If you were under investigation for any crime and the investigators screwed up the investigation and you were found not guilty haw many officers would be on their site complaining saying that dude was guilty as heck? Now same case and my question is; how would you feel if your friends was talking behind your back, all those sleepless nights, and finger pointing. Would you be mad s heck? Would you file suit? Would want your life back? Now I am NOT saying he is or isn't guilty. I am only commenting on the court case and investigation prior to the hearings. Again from MY experience with state internal investigations, this case screams wrongful persecution and retaliation from his superiors. He won his case and they failed to firmly place wrongdoing on his actions. LETS get over it and move on! There is more important things to concentrate my time and energy on that will benefit me, my family and our way of life. If I was under investigation for a crime that I committed while holding a position that prosecuted others for similar acts..... I would resign. If you want to move on... don't read this thread, don't comment. Simple your involvement is what YOU do. Pointing your finger AT me won't work on me. I simply stated what needed to be said, sorry for not being in line with you or others. I started with "Now I am NOT saying he is or isn't guilty" By making this statement I am CYA to a slander suite as he was found "not Guilty" Court cases are won and lost on technicalities every day all over the country. I would hope we as hunters would remain calm although deep inside we are outraged beyond belief. I understand we as a society needs to hold LE officials to a higher standard but again I will not print anything that can be used in court to pull money outa my backside. I will come right out and say it!!!! YOU ALL NEED TO WATCH WHAT YOU PRINT AS YOU ARE LIABLE FOR IT. Wagoner's case was won with the E-mails and memos from his supervisors along with the disciplinary report. That in and of it's self should warn you of what and how you write and publish your thoughts. I don't want to read and post on a thread involving one of you being sued for your thoughts. Hunt hard, stay safe, and enjoy your selves! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted April 6, 2015 OJ was found innocent too. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deserttacoma84 Report post Posted April 6, 2015 OJ was found innocent too. And Deborah Milke... Why not just worry about yourselves and not worry about what others get away with or don't. If everyone does their best to understand the law/regulations and do their best to follow them and make aound decisions for themselves or their youngsters then I really don't understand how you would have any run ins with the law. Sure there will always could be that one LEO that is more of a tight wad than another but in the same breath if you aren't doing anything wrong then you shouldn't have anything to worry about. In the meantime I suppose in this day and age everyone has the right to sue someone so why not a group of you get together and go after Game and Fish for unjust rulings or Wagner himself for breaking the law??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Redman Report post Posted April 6, 2015 the game animals in Arizona OUR resource... what I am supposed to do if a see a hunter poach an animal... just worry about myself? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
