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[trphyhntr]

bc777 probably has more mile in reverse on dirt than you do in drive couesmagnet.

[bonecollector777]

No bone don't twist my words. Do you have any experience to make any comparison based arguments on our g and f compared to other g and f departments. Is it a safe assumption that based on your age you probably don't have any. I think not ,unless your parents gave you 10000 a year to galavant across the west. High probability that's not the case based on your age. It's an odds thing I'm right. Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt it.

dude get it out of your head that I mentioned anything about other game and fish departments. You seem to be convinced that somewhere my argument was that Utah game and fish is better than azgfd. You are the one that brought up other game and fish so keep using that as your argument but I didn't even mention other departments .

[Shawn]

Man I hope the results comes out today!

[az300wby]

Bonecollector777,

 

You seem to always run your mouth on here and looking for a fight to win. Maybe you should go to school and became a wildlife biologist, work for the department, and change the way they are managing the wildlife in Arizona.

[MT_Sourdough]

I think some people look at herd size numbers as if they are exclusive of other interests. If herd size has been reduced, then it wasn't an accident. The managers work with ranchers to come to a number that limits the number of cattle that ranchers range on public lands and limits elk herd size in a mutual compromise. Most ranchers don't feed their cattle much in this state, but that means they share limited food supply with the elk. I've seen AZ cattle get mighty thin through the winter. It's all a balance and most states in the west operate this way.

[eltaco]

Bone777

 

So if G&F issued 100x of tags in every unit, you're saying they would have zero impact on the game quality in the area? Your point that genetics and food play a role in quality is valid, but saying that herd management is completely irrelevant is 100% incorrect. The reason top-tier units in any state offer better bull potential is largely due to the vast differences in tag allotment... or, by your theory, the food and genetics drastically change as soon as you cross a unit border.

 

I've only been here for a few posts, so that's probably an invalid observation, as well.

 

I am only here for the results, but this topic has me intrigued...

[Str8Shot]

if you think G&F is managing our elk herd for anything other than selling tags you are wrong. our elk heard is perhaps Arizona's most valuable resource, aside from copper. The slaughter that occurs in post-burn units is unbelievable. sure there are still big bulls in 1/3c/27, but not like there should be. people are getting better at hunting is the reason for a lot of it, but a lot of it is also too many late bull tags. in the winter, it is a fact that elk move into burn areas to find feed. this makes them unbelievably vulnerable to hunters. when a burn rips through, the elk are more visible, which makes G&F think there are more of them, so they up the tags. it destroyed 3c and is doing the same to unit 1 and 27 as we speak. i am only 29, but have probably been on more hunts in more units than most people out there. i also hunt out of state every year, so i have a pretty good idea on animal quality in other states. a big reason there are big animals is genetics. the reservations manage their animals pretty good and if you look at the units that have the biggest bulls, they border the res. those old gene pools they have on the res give big animals a chance to pass their big genes. those genes bleed over into surrounding areas. it comes down to money in AZ, plain and simple. they love being the cover boy for big elk because it sells tags. big elk does not have much to do at all with the G&F

The gene pool on the res is no different than the rest of the state ... Elk Bulls start Breeding in as early as their second year... An elk takes 8-12 years to reach it peak growth and size ... that means any 375" + bull has possibly bred for 6-10 years .... nutrition from one year to the next can account from 5 - 15% reduction in antler growth ... So a 350 class bull may have pushed 375 if there were nutrition factors ... the Res has the quality because they limit, big time, the number of trophy Bulls harvested while culling out much of the lesser quality bulls during the rag horn hunts ... This is a practice, Hunters can do without regulations if they took it upon themselves, but too many these days want a 375 plus or nothing ... As a population increases so does the quality of nutrition over time you get more Elk with less antler growth .... herd management is based on Population versus range versus handling capacity for nutrition to ensure the best breeding and birthing season after season... Tag numbers are based off of what should be harvested to meet the goals ... G&F does not treat 375 class bulls different than a spike ... it is a populations impact on a range that can either help or hinder through nutrition limitations which change year to year based on climatic conditions and rainfall.... Genetics alone do not make giants in the 375 class and above , no matter what you like to think ... it is all factors working together that produce quality... It is far to common anymore for people to point the finger and blame someone else versus themselves..... Keep that in mind next time you are passing up 340- 350 bulls or heck even a a bull that visually shows they are lacking in genetics ... only to say I did not take my Bull this year because I could not find one over 375 ( and of course that is where you blame G&F all over again)

[bonecollector777]

Bonecollector777,

 

You seem to always run your mouth on here and looking for a fight to win. Maybe you should go to school and became a wildlife biologist, work for the department, and change the way they are managing the wildlife in Arizona.

yes, how dare I have an opinion and disagree with someone! What a jerk I am for not worshipping game and fish.

[Flingingarrowsbro]

both sides are right in their own respects, genetics has a huge influence, so does habitat and environmental conditions. Now to say g&f is responsible for creating trophy animals, that's also partially correct. they haven't issued an insane amount of tags for units, which would definitely hurt the trophy aspect, and they definitely haven't had super conservative amount of tags that would surely help with trophy animals produced.

 

You need to look at what the g&f goals are, which are two: have the healthiest wildlife population possible to ensure hunting for future generations and have the most opportunities (tags=money) for success possible. G&F doesn't give 2 cents about managing for trophy animals. They manage for a healthy population that will continue to make them money. Trophy animals are a byproduct of having a healthy population.

[Flingingarrowsbro]

And when I say byproduct I pretty much mean by accident

[couesmagnet]

bc777 probably has more mile in reverse on dirt than you do in drive couesmagnet.

Now this is funny right here and made me smile knowing who I'm dealing with. I've got more days in the field than you and bone 777 have combined in both your hunting careers. Multiply a 125 days or more a year in the field times 16 years if you can and I'm the one laughing. That's just since 1999. Throw in another 10 years of 60 to 80 days a year and I've got more miles on my truck with all 4 tires off the ground than both of you have days alive. I'm done with this argument. You can't argue with inexperience. You just can't. It's like a kid in college algebra arguing with his calculus 3 teacher. Ya I just went there. I'm done with this argument. Bone777 how can you say one agency sucks and not compare it to the whole which includes other agencies. It's like saying a 400 inch bull is small but if no one is shooting 400 inch bulls then is it really that small? There's lots of other guys to learn from on this site that know hunting dynamics better than me no doubt but experience is just what it is experience and it can't be bought, bullshited , or faked. A coupe jokers for sure filled with nothing but bs but they all want to be big shots these days. Exactly what's ruining hunting and this site. Over and out. There's many people better than I am at hunting without a doubt but getting trampled by amateurs isn't going to happen on my watch.

[trphyhntr]

u mad?

[bonecollector777]

You gonna be OK couesmagnet? You seem pretty worked up. . Don't you go dying on me!

[bonecollector]

So how about them results??

[trphyhntr]

this is like lord of the flys. if theyre not out soon people are going to start dying.