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[couesmagnet]

Bone777, have you spent much time in other states? Maybe you started hunting when you were 3, and started going outside az to witness other states quality all the way up to your current age now, but i doubt it. What experience do you have to be able to even have an opinion on comparing az to other states? Please tell me of all your experience in other states so i know you know what your talking about when it comes to comparing us to other states. Maybe i'm not the one that's being conceded, but simply talking about something you really have no clue about, nor any experience to chime in about. Please tell us how by your age you've had enough time in the field in other states to compare us to them. I'm waiting for your educated opinion on this if you want to argue. Instead of hating, give us some facts based on your extensive experience on the subject!!!

[GreyGhost85]

bonecollector777, maybe since we haven't been hunting for 50 years, we shouldn't have an opinion. this idea gets thrown around on this forum all the time. It's really starting starting to wear me out.

[Str8Shot]

LMAO @ thinking 3c does not have any big bulls anymore .... and it Is not G&F killing them off it is trophy hunters and guides always looking for the biggest Bulls ... It takes an Elk 8 -12 years to reach peak growth and size ... there is a lot going on during those 8 -12 years ... there are still Big Bulls in 3c , do they cross the fence line a lot .. yes they do , but to say they are gone is laughable... with that said cull some of those rag horns out there .. it only helps in the long run !

[MT_Sourdough]

The elk in this state are being blessed with fresh food. In most states the elk herds are still dealing with snow this time of year (typically) While elk in other states still struggle to survive the winter, they are already fattening back up here. The early spring greening in AZ coincides with the start of new antler production. It's like AZ elk get over a month of extra antler growth.

In the mountains of western Montana, where I come from, the slopes do not start to green until sometime in May. The upper reaches don't clear until middle of June.

There is not much exceptional that this state does as opposed to others. Caring capacity = a, Agriculture interests = b, herd size = c; a-b=c. It's not the too unusual.

[bonecollector777]

If I recall I didn't mention anything about comparing other states. You brought that up and went on a rant. I'm talking about our state. Az. Not Colorado or Montana or utah. AZ. If you think 3c is anywhere near the quality it was 5-10 years ago you're in LA LA land. It's understandable if you think 340-350 bulls are big. But I'm talking 375+ bulls. BUT what do I know. I'm only 24. And have lived in 3c my whole life and been out there every day.

[couesmagnet]

bonecollector777, maybe since we haven't been hunting for 50 years, we shouldn't have an opinion. this idea gets thrown around on this forum all the time. It's really starting starting to wear me out.

I'm waiting for an experience based argument, do you have one? I'm sick and tired of everyone bashing our g and f department, and if you can't handle a fact filled argument, then why are we even discussing this. Just go back to hating in general if you want ,it's all good, but please have some facts or observations based on experience, please. Seems like it's easier these days to open mouth and insert foot without any facts to back it up. Sorry i've actually been out there to witness in person what i'm talking about.

[shedcrazy45]

jerry jerry jerry!! hahahaha

[couesmagnet]

If I recall I didn't mention anything about comparing other states. You brought that up and went on a rant. I'm talking about our state. Az. Not Colorado or Montana or utah. AZ. If you think 3c is anywhere near the quality it was 5-10 years ago you're in LA LA land. It's understandable if you think 340-350 bulls are big. But I'm talking 375+ bulls. BUT what do I know. I'm only 24. And have lived in 3c my whole life and been out there every day.

I said we have the best g and f department in the west due to our quality, and you said that was hilarious cause it's all genes and nothing else. Then i had to answer your gene comment with comparisons to other states. There's countless other agencies in other states, and they are not doing as well as we are. I don't know how to say it any diff, do you.

[Willyhunts2]

If you take a small game management, big game managment, wildlife nutrition, or range management course you will find out the genetics don't mean jack if the right feed and nutrition is not there. Not only that but a mountain of other things that will make good genes not show their true potential with any animal.

[bonecollector777]

 

 

bonecollector777, maybe since we haven't been hunting for 50 years, we shouldn't have an opinion. this idea gets thrown around on this forum all the time. It's really starting starting to wear me out.

I'm waiting for an experience based argument, do you have one? I'm sick and tired of everyone bashing our g and f department, and if you can't handle a fact filled argument, then why are we even discussing this. Just go back to hating in general if you want ,it's all good, but please have some facts or observations based on experience, please. Seems like it's easier these days to open mouth and insert foot without any facts to back it up. Sorry i've actually been out there to witness in person what i'm talking about.

Your "fact" based argument is "I've been everywhere and hunted more than you and I'm old and your young so I know more so listen to me and stop bashing game and fish." Haha I love the hypocrisy.

[nateNAU]

I guess since in under 30 i shouldnt give my opinion but all I know is ill be chasing a bull with my bow this year.

[bonecollector777]

You actually said you would give thue honor to game and fish for having big animals. to which I responded that that was funny and it was due to genes. Then you went off on your rant. Get your story straight. So we have come to the conclusion that genes and habitat/feed play a role in big animals. tell me how in the heck azgfd is controlling the habitat and feed? (I guess you could argue they are wiping out the animals so there is more feed for the ones that have survived. But then that would prove my point which you don't want to do.) Therefore azgfd have nothing to do with AZ having big animals. If a private organization was hired to control our hunting and fishing they still wouldn't have anything to do with us having big animals. AZ has big animals because of natural reasons. Genes, habitat, feed etc. Not because game and fish is managing them to be big.

[GreyGhost85]

if you think G&F is managing our elk herd for anything other than selling tags you are wrong. our elk heard is perhaps Arizona's most valuable resource, aside from copper. The slaughter that occurs in post-burn units is unbelievable. sure there are still big bulls in 1/3c/27, but not like there should be. people are getting better at hunting is the reason for a lot of it, but a lot of it is also too many late bull tags. in the winter, it is a fact that elk move into burn areas to find feed. this makes them unbelievably vulnerable to hunters. when a burn rips through, the elk are more visible, which makes G&F think there are more of them, so they up the tags. it destroyed 3c and is doing the same to unit 1 and 27 as we speak. i am only 29, but have probably been on more hunts in more units than most people out there. i also hunt out of state every year, so i have a pretty good idea on animal quality in other states. a big reason there are big animals is genetics. the reservations manage their animals pretty good and if you look at the units that have the biggest bulls, they border the res. those old gene pools they have on the res give big animals a chance to pass their big genes. those genes bleed over into surrounding areas. it comes down to money in AZ, plain and simple. they love being the cover boy for big elk because it sells tags. big elk does not have much to do at all with the G&F

[couesmagnet]

No bone don't twist my words. Do you have any experience to make any comparison based arguments on our g and f compared to other g and f departments. Is it a safe assumption that based on your age you probably don't have any. I think not ,unless your parents gave you 10000 a year to galavant across the west. High probability that's not the case based on your age. It's an odds thing I'm right. Correct me if I'm wrong but I doubt it.

[bonecollector777]

if you think G&F is managing our elk herd for anything other than selling tags you are wrong. our elk heard is perhaps Arizona's most valuable resource, aside from copper. The slaughter that occurs in post-burn units is unbelievable. sure there are still big bulls in 1/3c/27, but not like there should be. people are getting better at hunting is the reason for a lot of it, but a lot of it is also too many late bull tags. in the winter, it is a fact that elk move into burn areas to find feed. this makes them unbelievably vulnerable to hunters. when a burn rips through, the elk are more visible, which makes G&F think there are more of them, so they up the tags. it destroyed 3c and is doing the same to unit 1 and 27 as we speak. i am only 29, but have probably been on more hunts in more units than most people out there. i also hunt out of state every year, so i have a pretty good idea on animal quality in other states. a big reason there are big animals is genetics. the reservations manage their animals pretty good and if you look at the units that have the biggest bulls, they border the res. those old gene pools they have on the res give big animals a chance to pass their big genes. those genes bleed over into surrounding areas. it comes down to money in AZ, plain and simple. they love being the cover boy for big elk because it sells tags. big elk does not have much to do at all with the G&F

Your opinion has no value here if you're not over 45 and have hunted at least 20 states. Until then keep your opinion to yourself. it doesn't matter that you grew up in AZ and have hunted it your whole life and could possibly know more than the game and fish about what's going on out there in the forest. If game and fish says it's good to give 600 late 27 tags then it's good dang it! Just trust them. They know everything.