AND NOW THE BIG QUESTION ....

[Guest wdenike]

LMAO!!! It sure is a shame those silly credit card companies don't alow g&f to collect a half million dollars of people's money. For a product their customer may not even get. Although will pay intrest on, so that a third party ( g&f ) gets to make free intrest on the money. What is even more hilarious is they amount people perfectly willing to allow an organization to take their money intrest free for two months. To probably a combined amount of at least quarter million dollars. ( Maybe they think loaning their money free has leverage ) I don't know what others call this, but I know what I call it. And I wish I had a boat load of them to do some sort of like business with.

 

 

 

 

 

Take care, Willie

[billrquimby]

wdenike: The credit card companies have no dog in the fight. The interest they would charge their cardholders for two-month "loans" would be negligible in their grand scheme of things. It would be an online applicant's free choice whether or not to charge his account. And what is wrong with our state's wildlife agency collecting interest on the money it holds for two months? Two months' interest on $250,000 works out to less than $4,200 at 10% per annum, which probably doesn't even pay the cost of refunding a good portion of that $250,000. ----- Bill Quimby

 

[520HUNT]

I certainly don't mean to offend by this post, but online applications aren't going away. I must admit, I don't understand all the mistrust with the online application. There certainly are problems with the system, but it seems to me that AZGFD has found ways to correct for bank and credit card issues. Also, the deadline, for reasons I disagree with, always gets extended when the site goes down. While I'm sure there are examples out there, I'm unaware of anyones application getting rejected because of an online glitch. I, on the other hand, have personally had a paper app rejected before because something was filled out incorrectly. At least by doing it online the computer will generally warn me of missed fields or errors on the app. Maybe it is because my job involves working almost entirely in an online world, or because I grew up with computers that I don't share many of the distrust issues shared here.

IMO the bottom line is that the online app is not going away. If anything, I would guess that we are within a generation or two of seeing the end of paper apps, as they are more time consuming and costly for AZGFD.

The whole discussion reminds me of my studies as a child of the early days of the automobile. Early cars were mistrusted as they were expensive and very prone to breaking down. A common saying at the time by those passing by broken automobiles on horseback was "Get a horse" and many believed the automobile would never be able to replace the horse as a primary means of travel.

It's not simply the "online process" that hunters don't trust, It is the AZGFD that hunters don't trust. Which is understandable with all the shenanigans that go on in this department.

[Guest wdenike]

wdenike: The credit card companies have no dog in the fight. The interest they would charge their cardholders for two-month "loans" would be negligible in their grand scheme of things. It would be an online applicant's free choice whether or not to charge his account. And what is wrong with our state's wildlife agency collecting interest on the money it holds for two months? Two months' interest on $250,000 works out to less than $4,200 at 10% per annum, which probably doesn't even pay the cost of refunding a good portion of that $250,000. ----- Bill Quimby

 

 

 

Bill, just saw this. NEGLIGIBLE?? Credit card companies, and banks don't miss a penny. And smile at people that shrug their shoulders at the small change. I am a firm believer that NEW MONEY ( People that were handed their fortune ) have the attitude that small change don't matter. Bet the farm, the ones that broke their backs earning their fortune accounted for every penny.

 

 

 

As to the NEGLIGIBLE $4200.00 that you are ok with in the name of our precious wild life. Please tell me just how much above the thirteen dollar app. fee is acceptable??? Before the reflection of our GOOBERMNT AGENCIES resembles BERNIE MADEOFF???

 

 

 

Take care, Willie

[Red Sparky]

LMAO!!! It sure is a shame those silly credit card companies don't alow g&f to collect a half million dollars of people's money. For a product their customer may not even get. Although will pay intrest on, so that a third party ( g&f ) gets to make free intrest on the money. What is even more hilarious is they amount people perfectly willing to allow an organization to take their money intrest free for two months. To probably a combined amount of at least quarter million dollars. ( Maybe they think loaning their money free has leverage ) I don't know what others call this, but I know what I call it. And I wish I had a boat load of them to do some sort of like business with.

 

 

 

 

 

Take care, Willie

I hear you. You all are lucky in one sense but not the other. You all apply and when the draw happens your cards get hit. So you are not charged until you buy the goods. Yes you get hit with the non-refundable fee but you lose it anyhow if you don't get drawn. Then if you draw and there are problems with the card, your G&F attempts three times to contact you to get it straightened out.

 

Now come to NM. You have your card hit as soon as you put in. The tag and non-refundable fee. Our G&F does not contact you if there are problems you just get denied the hunt. This would only apply to those waiting until the last minute to draw if the card did not go through. If you pay the charge off, or use your bank account you don't pay any interest. G&F might get the interest or it might go into the state fund, who knows.

 

It is like you said where they are holding about $500 of mine until the draw happens, two months after I applied. When I get the money back, if not drawn, it goes back in the hunting account for next year. That way I get interest on it for 10 out of 12 months. Reading all I have, our draw does not have as many problems and we have a definite date on when the draw is posted. Everybody in the draw has paid so there is not the time lost trying to fix cards. You either draw or not. We are 100% online draw and it is not done in state to my knowledge.

[billrquimby]

Mr. Willie: You apparently have a problem with my use of the word "negligible" when talking about $4,200 our wildlife agency might earn from by holding $250,000 in application fees for two months. Perhaps I should have used "trifling," "insignificant" "unimportant," "minor," "inconsequential," "minimal," "small," "slight," "inappreciable," "infinitesimal," "nugatory," "petty," "paltry," "inadequate," "insufficient," "meager," "pitiful," "minuscule," "piddling," or even "measly." The AZGFD's total income from all sources in 2013 was just under $100 million, so that $4,200 represents just .000042% of total budget. Put in terms you might understand, it would be like someone making $20 an hour getting a $0.00084 an hour raise. As for the $13 application fee, I fully support the agency that is responsible for the welfare of our precious wildlife. I hope you don't believe someone handed me a fortune. I left home at age 17, worked my way through the UA, held down two full-time jobs simultaneously for more than three decades and retired at age 62 with little reduction in our standard of living after going around the world several times and hunting in a dozen countries with no help from anyone. And, since retiring in 1999, I have written or edited 23 books and am working on two more as we speak. My wife and I earned what we have the hard way -- we earned every penny of it! ------ Bill Quimby

[KidBowHunter]

 

I certainly don't mean to offend by this post, but online applications aren't going away. I must admit, I don't understand all the mistrust with the online application. There certainly are problems with the system, but it seems to me that AZGFD has found ways to correct for bank and credit card issues. Also, the deadline, for reasons I disagree with, always gets extended when the site goes down. While I'm sure there are examples out there, I'm unaware of anyones application getting rejected because of an online glitch. I, on the other hand, have personally had a paper app rejected before because something was filled out incorrectly. At least by doing it online the computer will generally warn me of missed fields or errors on the app. Maybe it is because my job involves working almost entirely in an online world, or because I grew up with computers that I don't share many of the distrust issues shared here.

IMO the bottom line is that the online app is not going away. If anything, I would guess that we are within a generation or two of seeing the end of paper apps, as they are more time consuming and costly for AZGFD.

The whole discussion reminds me of my studies as a child of the early days of the automobile. Early cars were mistrusted as they were expensive and very prone to breaking down. A common saying at the time by those passing by broken automobiles on horseback was "Get a horse" and many believed the automobile would never be able to replace the horse as a primary means of travel.

It's not simply the "online process" that hunters don't trust, It is the AZGFD that hunters don't trust. Which is understandable with all the shenanigans that go on in this department.

 

Well said 520HUNT

[billrquimby]

"But that is an entirely different topic from what is being discussed in this thread, which is distrust with the online application process." ...... Actually, I started the thread by asking how long will we wait before the elk and antelope drawing results are posted. I have no problem with applying online nor do I distrust the process. It one day will be the only way hunters can apply for tags. However, since my question has expanded in other directions, my position in this debate is that it online applicants should have to come up with a lot more than $13 to get their names in the pot. ------ Bill Quimby

[Seldom Drawn]

I already said 21 days after the first credit card was hit, that's what it was last year.

[mc68]

No response from being slammed there Willie?! LMAO!! Probably a good idea not to try to match wits with Bill though. Well said Bill.

[KidBowHunter]

No response from being slammed there Willie?! LMAO!! Probably a good idea not to try to match wits with Bill though. Well said Bill.

Maybe he's not on here every second of the day like Bill is

[murfys69law]

In 1 aspect I have to say I agree with Bill. When I went to the hunter education class..many many many years ago because I was going to Colo. to hunt, The teacher asked the people their how many are there with their significant others just to put in another tag in hopes of being drawn? Half the class raised there hands then laughed sheepishly. This really bugged me. Hadn't had a tag for several years then and that told me my odds just went down. When their significant others were asked if they would shoot a deer or elk, they said NO!!! What does that say about morals of some hunters? They don't care about others. They just want a tag and the odds for people like us getting drawn increase dramatically. Wonder how many people out there now do the same thing? IMO it Must be in the hundreds. If having to pay the full amount up front I truly believe this would reduce the number of tags applied for. Isn't that what we all want anyway? A better chance of getting a hard to get tag in AZ.... just saying...

[GotBowAz]

You couldn’t convince me that on line apps haven’t made a huge impact on getting drawn. im used to getting drawn at least every other year for a cow archery tag. It has now been 5 years straight without a tag.

 

The on line process allows you to fix your mistakes, it allows you to put in for more hunts without losing much as a result. And I'm sure there are a few that put their non hunting wife’s in because its cheap up front so they can pass a tag down to a kid as well.

 

When it was a paper process I figure at least 3 percent made mistakes. I did that myself once…only once! That 3 percent helps increase my odds. Also by paper you must have the money before the drawing.

 

For those who cry because uncle Sam is earning interest on your money. You are the ones I don’t get. You lost nothing out of your own pocket. The money/interest goes back into the animals in your state. Exactly what is the problem here?

 

To my dismay the on line process is here to stay. I think they should at least charge the card up front. This IMO would reduce the number of applicant significantly.

[Coues assassin]

LMAO!!! It sure is a shame those silly credit card companies don't alow g&f to collect a half million dollars of people's money. For a product their customer may not even get. Although will pay intrest on, so that a third party ( g&f ) gets to make free intrest on the money. What is even more hilarious is they amount people perfectly willing to allow an organization to take their money intrest free for two months. To probably a combined amount of at least quarter million dollars. ( Maybe they think loaning their money free has leverage ) I don't know what others call this, but I know what I call it. And I wish I had a boat load of them to do some sort of like business with.

Take care, Willie

[AZbowhntr]

I know people first hand that put everyone in the family in for tags because there is no up front charge. Other than the piddly $13 fee. If grandma (who has never hunted in her life) draws a tag just sign it over the the grand kids. Now you charge the full fee up front it will slow down a bit. Maybe not a bunch for deer but when you start talking about elk and sheep that adds up. The way I look at it is if you don't have the money to pay up front you shouldn't be putting in at all.