New issue

[az4life]

Times are a changing....

 

Like the song says

Remember when a Ho was a Hoe,

A coke was a Coke

A screw was a Screw

 

Now it may be

Remember when a Hunt was a Hunt...

[Diamondbackaz]

If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. 

Adolf Hitler

 

 

I found this one and thought it really sounded like how our Commission and AZGF leaders think of us....

 

 

I think it was Bill Clinton that said this???

[cramerhunts]

I for one use salt.....to set my trail cameras on. I have not hunted over it all though I have thought about it. The picture quality that you can get over salt is by far better than a standard trail or even water. The buck that I chased around for several years and finally harvested I never got him on a camera over salt but by being in the woods to check my cameras and replinish the salt I was able to keep track of him.

 

I have also had numerous used up cards and dead batteries because cattle have come into the salt so I don't know how it would be proven that I established the lick for deer or a rancher did for cows!

 

This is unbelievable to me and I for one would like to see some of this data about it actually increasing the success rates.

 

I am a firm believer in using the laws that we allready have established and go after the people who abuse it but we can't let them continue to do this to us.

 

Does anyone know when they will be presenting this to the public or taking public input?

[Red Rabbit]

I was told by a G&F manager a few years ago that the USFS has regs against placing salt in the national forests (albiet not strictly enforced). I have not checked to see them in print.

 

RR

[300 wsm]

I dont care, they can make it illegal. I will still do it!

[DesertBull]

I dont care, they can make it illegal. I will still do it!

 

 

[Ron G.]

I've put trail cams up over salt, and last fall was the first time I actually hunted over salt for archery deer. The problem with outlawing salt would be the time of how long you can hunt the area after it has been 'removed'. Salt soaks into the ground and deer tend to eat the dirt. It's not like regular bait that once it's gone it's gone. If the same 10 day rule applied for salt as for migratory game birds, then it wouldn't be an issue. Salt would still be in the ground even after the visible salt was removed 10 days prior... I heard this was coming in regards to bait, but heard salt would be excluded. Maybe it was just wishful thinking...

 

If hunting over salt was illegal, I'd probably still put salt out as an attractant and to put trail cams over. Just wouldn't hunt the salt. Have done that for years already. What if you hunt along a trail leading to your salt 200 yds away from the salt? Is that still considered baiting???

[Rembrant]

That is a real good point. How will a law like that be inforced. People will surely cheat.

I think if the dept wants to control archery kills they will have to make it a draw tag. At least that's inforceable.

Mike

[Rembrant]

Here is the real problem:

Arizona is an arid state. It is not like the Mid-West or the South where there are liberal bag limits on deer. Even with the most favorable management techniques for large numbers of deer, Arizona will never again produce enough deer for all the people that want to harvest them. Meanwhile, Arizona's human population has gotten out of hand - and we ain't seen nothing yet!

The Dept must manage these deer, AND make money to run the Dept. They have gotten real creative over the years and especially of late to maximize the resource and the potential revenue it provides.

The opportunity vs quality issue is coming to a head. We've been spoiled. A lot of us have grown up here and have seen the best days.

Those days are gone.

I don't like it either. We want the quality AND the opportunity that we have enjoyed all our lives. It isn't possible any more.

Mr Quimbly thinks the Dept is stingy with the tags. Most of the rest of us want our herds managed for quality, yet we still complain that we don't get drawn. Outlawing bait/salt for deer is another example of keeping the revenue coming in and protecting the resource. Check the stat book. Archers in AZ have finally figured out that hunting Mr. Coues like our Eastern brothers do is effective. This is a new pressure on the herds that wasn't there before, and in the places where it didn't occur before - in forested areas. The Rim country and places like it were pools of virtually untouched whitetail populations. Now they are getting leaned on. Nope the archery kill ain't nothin like the rifle harvest. But it's a heck of a lot more than it used to be. The Dept ain't stupid. They're watching this, and have been watching this all along.

Again, Arizona at its best, will only grow so many deer, yet the human population growth won't stop till kindom come. Big Game hunting can only get stretched so far in this state before we lose opportunity and quality. This is what the future of big game hunting looks like in Arizona, and guess what? The future is already here. Get used to it, or move because these issues will never get better. Humans tend to be so selfish that we depleat resources and then think about it. We complain that the Dept only thinks about money. What do we think about? What do you think about!? What is your motivation for writing into this forum? Isn't what we want, is to just hunt deer? We want to hunt deer so badly that we we will stoop to disrespect the agency that provides us this prividge, instead of looking past out own selfish interests to understand the big picture and what help we can provide.

Jim Hefflefinger offers his time to open dialogue with us and we reward him by calling him and his dept personel fish/bunny cops? What in the world is wrong with you guys?

Mike

[IHunt2live]

This has been another intrusting topic to fallow. I for one have never used salt..... I'm hoping to start tomorrow and I hope that they don't do away with it. I don't know much about the inner workings of the department and alot of stuff they do I don't understand but I don't think that they will be the downfall of hunting in our state. I like what Rembrant had to say. AZ population is getting out of hand, but who are we to say who can or can not live somewhere. Maybe we should all do what we wish we could and quit or jobs and just hunt, then AZ economy will crash and noone would want to move here.

I think most of us here feel that the G&F is not full of morons, but there are enough morons high enough to make a difference. And I am greatfull for Mr. Hefflefinger's input in our site. I'm greatful that there are people like hime working for the Game and Fish and I wish there were more and I acculay hope to be one some day.

Everyone is intitled to their oppinion and I'm glad we have a site like this that we all can share them and to get ripped a new one.

Just my two cents

[TREESTANDMAN]

Yes the archery success rate may be up in part due to hunting over salt but what is wrong with that? Typically bowhunters hunt over salt using a treestand in ponderosa forest. Hunters that draw a rifle tag usually choose to hunt more open, glassable areas, so even though the hunt success ratio for units holding pines may be up for archery hunters, the population decrease due to harvest is spread out evenly over the unit.

 

The idea of this method seeming unethical to the public is hogwash. As was stated before, the majority of public (non-hunters) most likely has no idea it exists. I use trailcameras and Treestand hunt over salt and I will testify that a lot of strategy and work goes into harvesting a buck. It is not as easy as it sounds!

 

The salt/mineral products sold in Sporting goods shops are beneficial to the deer/elks health. They might come into it 1-2 times a week. This chance of disease, unethical perception to the public, appearance of too much success talk is bs.

[DesertBull]

I'll bet that there is more chance of disease being spread at a desert water hole, where every deer, javelina, fox, coyote and rodent within 2 square miles congregates all summer long than at a salt block.

[ThomC]

I agree with Rembrant. And, will add that the increasing population is a huge problem. It is a world problem. As population increases freedoms decrease.

 

Most "sportsmen" are narrowly focused and tend to "bite the hand that feeds them" when their little piece of the world is encroched upon. If you don't work on the big picture your little picture will dissappear and you won't be able to stop it.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Here is the real problem:

Arizona is an arid state. It is not like the Mid-West or the South where there are liberal bag limits on deer. Even with the most favorable management techniques for large numbers of deer, Arizona will never again produce enough deer for all the people that want to harvest them. Meanwhile, Arizona's human population has gotten out of hand - and we ain't seen nothing yet!

The Dept must manage these deer, AND make money to run the Dept. They have gotten real creative over the years and especially of late to maximize the resource and the potential revenue it provides.

The opportunity vs quality issue is coming to a head. We've been spoiled. A lot of us have grown up here and have seen the best days.

Those days are gone.

I don't like it either. We want the quality AND the opportunity that we have enjoyed all our lives. It isn't possible any more.

Mr Quimbly thinks the Dept is stingy with the tags. Most of the rest of us want our herds managed for quality, yet we still complain that we don't get drawn. Outlawing bait/salt for deer is another example of keeping the revenue coming in and protecting the resource. Check the stat book. Archers in AZ have finally figured out that hunting Mr. Coues like our Eastern brothers do is effective. This is a new pressure on the herds that wasn't there before, and in the places where it didn't occur before - in forested areas. The Rim country and places like it were pools of virtually untouched whitetail populations. Now they are getting leaned on. Nope the archery kill ain't nothin like the rifle harvest. But it's a heck of a lot more than it used to be. The Dept ain't stupid. They're watching this, and have been watching this all along.

Again, Arizona at its best, will only grow so many deer, yet the human population growth won't stop till kindom come. Big Game hunting can only get stretched so far in this state before we lose opportunity and quality. This is what the future of big game hunting looks like in Arizona, and guess what? The future is already here. Get used to it, or move because these issues will never get better. Humans tend to be so selfish that we depleat resources and then think about it. We complain that the Dept only thinks about money. What do we think about? What do you think about!? What is your motivation for writing into this forum? Isn't what we want, is to just hunt deer? We want to hunt deer so badly that we we will stoop to disrespect the agency that provides us this prividge, instead of looking past out own selfish interests to understand the big picture and what help we can provide.

Jim Hefflefinger offers his time to open dialogue with us and we reward him by calling him and his dept personel fish/bunny cops? What in the world is wrong with you guys?

Mike

 

What--ever, Dude.....

 

 

I assure you that those populations that you speak of, are not being damaged by archery hunting preasure..... .... Those same "pools", as you call them, also recieve little or no rifle hunting preasure and never have.... Although that is the only point above that Tweek'd me enough to respond.... I really don't agree with any of your statements above... actually I am bewildered by most of them... ... I kind of read the whole thing with one eyebrow slightly raised and shaking my head. Sorry. Nuthin' personal.....

 

CnS

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I have talked with several local WM's and they all say that putting archery deer hunting to a draw does not help them with there "hunter opportunity" objective. However, if they were to manage the archery hunts with a "Harvest Objective", (just as they use on the bear hunts) they could better manage areas that are getting too much preasure. This would also end any dicusion of what they need "take" from us to reduce success rates... .... And we can always go hunting in a different unit if one area limits out! They are happy and we are happy, too... .... what a switch....