New issue

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Doug,

 

Leonard said they were basing the increased success rate on info from field personnel. He didn't mention having data on the diff success rates on sitting a water hole vs salt. I don't think they have hard data on it, but I doubt any of us would argue that hunting over salt isn't effective. I don't think the use of bait issue is based solely on hunter success. One of the issues that Leonard mentioned was that there is an ethical or public perception issue with the use of baits. Baits are banned for many other species, so the public is wondering why not deer? Of course I asked him if sitting a waterhole would constitute sitting over bait since I can't imagine a better bait than life-giving water. But he said no, that wouldn't be considered bait because it's not put there by the hunter.

 

Amanda

 

I think that is misconception.... If you read the regs, baiting bears and waterfowl are the only ones that are outlawed. We happen to have 9 other species of big game in the state...... And how is it so much different than the flatlanders that come to the mountains and buy a cabin so they can feed the deer in there yard??? I did a job right near a house where every morning about 7:30 am the guy would come out in yard wearing boxer shorts and shaking a can of corn..... the cow elk would come RUNNING to his yard!!! After they ate it all and left he would repeat the process.... They should make that illegal too then....... If they want to see critters they can get off of their butts and go lookin' for them! .... I maen really..... what is good for the goose is good for the gander.... they can't just pick on the hunters..... Also.... water catchments are put there by hunters..... it is only the begining.

 

Just my $.02 ......

[hawkeye]

Doug,

 

Leonard said they were basing the increased success rate on info from field personnel. He didn't mention having data on the diff success rates on sitting a water hole vs salt. I don't think they have hard data on it, but I doubt any of us would argue that hunting over salt isn't effective. I don't think the use of bait issue is based solely on hunter success. One of the issues that Leonard mentioned was that there is an ethical or public perception issue with the use of baits. Baits are banned for many other species, so the public is wondering why not deer? Of course I asked him if sitting a waterhole would constitute sitting over bait since I can't imagine a better bait than life-giving water. But he said no, that wouldn't be considered bait because it's not put there by the hunter.

 

Amanda

 

So go ahead and tell me how voting in the commisioners would be worse than allowing them to appoint the bunny-huggin mess we have now. I haven't seen anything positive come from our Game and Fish Dept. in a very long time. I have been a hunter in Arizona for 50 years, and in the last 15 or so years I have seen nothing but anti hunter sentiment coming from the Dept. I read a thread a while back saying how it is just the commisioners. I know of a couple of new officers that never hunted and are against most of what all of us believe in. I don't want to post any names but It won't be long till the whole Dept. is full of tree huggers and wolf lovers. They want to protect wolves and do away with the lifestyle we have lived for decades, but when it comes to enforcing the laws we have they don't give a damned. In my 50 years of hunting I can count on my hands the number of times I have been checked in the field. And then they want to open it up to let poachers come and go as they please during the archery elk hunt. I will gurantee there will be whole families out hunting on one tag. All they will have to have is a deer tag, and let the fun begin. When our grandchildren have to go to other states to hunt, we can all tell them stories of how hunting used to be a way of life in Arizona until the Game and Fish Dept. did away with it. And the big question is, What Can We Do About It?

[HUNTMUP]

I agree, it has started..... This is just the beginning, the whole reasoning behind the suggestions is, lower the success rate and raise the amount of tags they can issue. I hope everyone has seen this one coming for the last few years. It really started rolling when they were toying with the idea of taking half the tags from rut hunts for archery elk and Dec. rifle coues and doubling the tags for a hunt when the success rates would be much lower.

 

The management plan is not for hunt quality but "hunter quantity" more tags, more revenue etc.....

 

There is no mistaking the rise in fuel, cost of living and the huge cost of running the game and fish etc. The way it looks, they can raise the total dollar intake and put more hunters in the field. I would be willing to bet that they will get less friction from the hunting public when a fair amount of people are getting tags on a regular basis, regardless of the actual hunt experience. I feel that we are the minority when it comes to action or verbal input on these matters to the AZGFD. I can assure you there are a whole lot more hunters and fishermen etc that will be happy with paying their tag fees and tromping around the woods for a weekend and maybe see a deer in the back of someones truck on the way back home.. I remember one hunting trip to 35B on an early rifle coues tag a few year back and I was floored by the amount of hunting camps I seen, welcome to the future.....

 

OH GOD WE ARE DOOOOMED

[hawkeye]

One of the issues that Leonard mentioned was that there is an ethical or public perception issue with the use of baits. Baits are banned for many other species, so the public is wondering why not deer?

 

Well, the "public" isn't buying hunting license, tags, permits, paying application fees, etc.

WE ARE.

 

What a crock. Leonard is talking out his *ss. 99% of the non-hunting public has no idea about the baiting isue. This is nothing but another anti-hunting proceedure being implemented by the anti-hunting G&F. They give a crap more about PETA than they do about our way of life, and Game Management. Our worse feares have been realized. The Game and Fish Dept. have been infiltrated to the highest ranks by PETA, and TREE HUGGERS. I guess "THE PUBLIC", is a new term for PETA and TREE HUGERS.

[fatfootdoc]

So in the event that something like this passes , how in the world are the G and F going to be able to tell if you are hunting over a rancher placed salt lick or one you put there yourself? When I lived in Flag and hunted 6A, the ranchers were pretty creative with where they put there salt blocks and mineral licks. I can just see them using it as an excuse to ticket a legal hunter. Are they going to GPS ever single lick or what? Hope you guys can band together on this and keep it from coming reality in AZ, once you lose one battle the chances of winning the war greatly decrease. AG

[hawkeye]

"THIS JUST IN"

After a meeting with PETA, Leonard has just proposed that fishing with bait is an unfair advantage. So he will propose to end the use of bait while fishing. This will be a big step in helping the public perception of our sport. And we all know that public perception should be at the forefront of all decision making processes.

[az4life]

The whole mess stinks of Animal rights activism. Personally I never hunted over salt but was planning to try it based on reports mainly from the forum.

If AGFD does not have "valid data" showing success over water, or near croplands, where would they get "valid data" to show salt was more successful.

 

Looks like our "big brother" is watching us, and getting "valid data" from this forum. Be Careful what you post about other things like sheds and things that happened to you in the past.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed. 

Adolf Hitler

 

 

I found this one and thought it really sounded like how our Commission and AZGF leaders think of us....

[kwp]

Of course I asked him if sitting a waterhole would constitute sitting over bait since I can't imagine a better bait than life-giving water. But he said no, that wouldn't be considered bait because it's not put there by the hunter.

 

Amanda

 

 

So will they ban conservation groups from putting in water catchments that may help a large number of animals survive because a few hunters may sit these catchments and actually be successful and have a 'quality' hunt.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Of course I asked him if sitting a waterhole would constitute sitting over bait since I can't imagine a better bait than life-giving water. But he said no, that wouldn't be considered bait because it's not put there by the hunter.

 

Amanda

 

 

So will they ban conservation groups from putting in water catchments that may help a large number of animals survive because a few hunters may sit these catchments and actually be successful and have a 'quality' hunt.

 

Another good point....

[GameHauler]

This has been in the works for years.

The first step was to ban feeding of wild animals in the Phoenix and Tucson metro areas

A WM i know has been talking about it for a long time

It is going to be hard to stop

[.270]

aw man, somebody slap me, but i don't much care for chummin' deer. get out and hunt. but if a buncha guys like it, i'll go along with keepin' it. sorta like tobacco i guess. i don't smoke and think folks that do are foolish, but i don't care if they do. and i really don't like to have any more rules and regulations. but i ain't a big fan o' deer chum. now fishin', that's a differnt story. ok, i'll vote however the rest of ya do. Lark.

[tjhunt2]

This is a subject I was hoping would not surface for some time. I for one have enjoyed the use of putting out salt and bait, not only for the sake of hunting but believe the salt benefits the animals year long during the off season. Yes, I do believe as hunters, we need to stick together no matter what choice of weapon we prefer to hunt with. As someone said yearlier, once we loose it we can kiss it goodbye. Now that this subject has been mentioned we as hunters must monitor this more closely. The joy and excitement of watching wildlife coming in to one of my honey holes has brought me more pleasre than any animal shot and I don't want to loose this either.

[jim]

You guys better dump all those hi powered binoculars because my guess would be they help do in more critters than salt ever will.

[bowhunter4life]

You guys better dump all those hi powered binoculars because my guess would be they help do in more critters than salt ever will.

 

 

This just out! game and fish website, all visual aids.... max 7 x 35 bushnel bino's only..... all binos over $50 now a crime......iron site only..... all firearms.. recurve bows only....

 

 

Wait this just out national forest service........50' max..... walking from a road.

 

 

No Ser. You can not retreive that doe you just shot while road hunting, She is 62' off this numbered road. dont worry them wolves we put in here won't let her go to waste .

 

year 2011.my sons first hunt by himself...