KGAINES Report post Posted April 19, 2007 Guys and Gals this was brought to my attention last night at the meeting and I know it will interest a lot of you. I guess there is discussion going on that they should ban all use of baits for hunting in AZ, supposedly they will ask for public input on this matter in the near future, and when they say baits the use of salt is also included, only salt that is established by a rancher could be hunted, any thing added by a hunter would be illegal. The whole reasoning behind this was that Coueswhitetail hunters are having great success using these tactics. I know this topic has had a lot of debate in the past, but I don't like the fact that the only reason behind it is hunter success, what is next banning the use of calls for elk, deer, and predators because it creates a higher success rate. It would work well for game and fish in one aspect, if there are lower success rates they can issue more tags creating more hunter opportunity with a lot less quality, but that is the way it seems to be headed. This is one we all need to watch out for. It allows for easy rule changes if hunters are split into groups, all hunters need to stick by each other, we all use different tactics, if they take they very rarely give back, I don't want to see archers against rifle hunters, stand hunters against spot and stalk, we need to support the guys running hounds since they are the most effective way out there now on the lions, we all have different methods and tactics and as long as they are legal they should be respected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azryan Report post Posted April 19, 2007 just when the game and fish cant get much worse they do.....they are always looking for things to use against us i dont know what to say...i am just shaking my head.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SilentButDeadly Report post Posted April 19, 2007 If only ranchers can set out salt, I guess guided hunts on private land might start seeing some big bucks in the future. Wish I had a couple of cows... (and a 5,000 acre ranch somewhere in Unit 33 while I'm at it....) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bowsniper Report post Posted April 19, 2007 And what's next? Maybe they will ban hunting within 1/4 mile of water holes? No dogs for bear or lion? No esterus deer or elk scents? How about no "Fall blend" cover scent? You're right, despite different hunting tactics, we need to stick together as hunters. The fish police seem totally out of control and out of touch. We have to band together, and stop them on this one, or they will slowly boil the frog. I am really bummed about the way things are going. Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peloncillo Report post Posted April 19, 2007 Keith you are right about us needing to stick together. I wonder if Lenord hadn't said anything last night about baiting if we would have had any advance notice about this issue. Hopefully enough people can get the commisions ear and squash this before it too is lost forever. He said all it takes is something to attract some does and then the does will attract bucks. Sounds like maybe they would have to ban rut hunts because the does could be considered bait. He did say they had not actually conducted any scientific studies yet just that coues deer hunters were becoming way to successful. I guess from what I heard it is just in the planning stages right now. Keven Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted April 19, 2007 He did say they had not actually conducted any scientific studies yet just that coues deer hunters were becoming way to successful. They hate it when we kill THEIR deer. Unbelievable. I am 100% convinced now that we have a bunch of bunny huggers in charge at G&F. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultramag Report post Posted April 19, 2007 camo clothing is next followed be sights on bows and you can not leave camp with a full can of chew you'll be out in the field to long and no water bottle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFGinNM Report post Posted April 19, 2007 I don't want to pirate this thread but the talk of hunter's needing to band together made me think of this thread I read on another site, http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showth...ighlight=loaded (I hope it works). If it doesn't work it's about hunting with one in the chamber or not. Not really a similar topic to using salt or not but a ethic situation asking if hunter's should hunt with a round in the chamber or not. Like Ultramag states "camo clothing is next followed be sights on bows and you can not leave camp with a full can of chew you'll be out in the field to long and no water bottle." when will the non-huntuing biologists decide that we cannot carry a firearm in the field with a round in the chamber? Just might not be safe. --Bill Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Rabbit Report post Posted April 19, 2007 Upon what are they basing the success rates or numbers? Do they actually have any numbers that indicate the number of deer arrowed over salt, versus at a water hole, on a trail, stalked, or called in? What about the use of salt on the Kaibab and by elk hunters and mule deer hunters? RR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted April 19, 2007 Doug, Leonard said they were basing the increased success rate on info from field personnel. He didn't mention having data on the diff success rates on sitting a water hole vs salt. I don't think they have hard data on it, but I doubt any of us would argue that hunting over salt isn't effective. I don't think the use of bait issue is based solely on hunter success. One of the issues that Leonard mentioned was that there is an ethical or public perception issue with the use of baits. Baits are banned for many other species, so the public is wondering why not deer? Of course I asked him if sitting a waterhole would constitute sitting over bait since I can't imagine a better bait than life-giving water. But he said no, that wouldn't be considered bait because it's not put there by the hunter. Amanda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted April 19, 2007 I agree that no matter how you hunt or what weapon you use, we better stand up cuz this is how they start to nibble away. There are a hundred different things that could be linked to hunter success..... where will they stop? How can they prove that a hunter or a rancher put out salt???? AZ is open range I know of salt sites that are out in the middle of nowhere... and the ranchers have been packin' salt there for years.... I mean come on.... water sources will be next! Do they ever stop to think about the crap they come up with??? .... I heard that they are talking about this because of the hunter success, but also I guess there is an outfitter in South East AZ that is setting up Texas style feeders and knockin' the snot out of the deer on them.... .... One J A and we all get a bad rap. If they were smart enough to work with the USFS they could nail the guy for littering, importing/planting a non-native vegitation (I thought that was illegal.... correct me if not), through what ever he is feeding. And I bet if they tried... they could dig up something else. If they would just work the laws that they have harder instead of making new ones we would be just fine. If someone is pushing it too far then deal with it on an individual level.... not a blanket. I personally think that Texas style feeders and food plots are BS and guys who are going that far are ruining it for every one. But either way we cannot let them continue to tighten the noose around our necks. We have to stand together whether we agree a 100% or not..... cuz they will get us all one by one if we don't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted April 19, 2007 One of the issues that Leonard mentioned was that there is an ethical or public perception issue with the use of baits. Baits are banned for many other species, so the public is wondering why not deer? Well, the "public" isn't buying hunting license, tags, permits, paying application fees, etc. WE ARE. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ultramag Report post Posted April 19, 2007 this is what the g&f seem to be doing.ANY ANTLERED DEER APRIL 15 THRU APRIL 16 100000 tags. ELK APRIL 17 THRU APRIL 18 100000 tags. unlawful to pick up sheds............................... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GRONG Report post Posted April 19, 2007 Like downthebarrel said, I'm just shaking my head. OH NO! ANOTHER ARCHER JUST KILLED ANOTHER WHITETAIL!!!!!!!! But they can issue several hundred if not an extra thousand tags on the Kaibab and call it good management!?!!?!? WTF is wrong with those flippin morons!!!!?????!!!! What is the actual number of coues deer that even get killed with a bow per year as opposed to the amount of does slaughtered on the Kaibab for no reason other than "hunter opportunity"? I'm so tired of that term too..... Hunter Opportunity. What a crock! I'm done for now cause I'm getting all worked up. Count Grongulous of the S.S. Vondruke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted April 19, 2007 I personally think that Texas style feeders and food plots are BS and guys who are going that far are ruining it for every one. I do too, for the most part, but if it is on private property, I don't think the G&F should have any business there, as long as they are abiding by bag limits, seasons, etc. I'm pretty sure that it is already illegal to establish a food plot on public land. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
