Ethics

[Str8Shot]

Str8Shot,

 

I have yet to talk to an LEO or WM that enforces the littering law as you define it... if they were, they would have used that law instead of the new baiting rules and actually WRITE tickets (that is how the law would be enforced, BTW). FYI, you're tuck is abandoned in the forest the instant you walk away from it... How far do you want the literal words to be taken? Your camp? Your backpack and lunch if you walk over the hill? Come on man... You are a $hit Starter and a Gawd Dam Hypocrite if you say you have never left anything that you own on the Forest... unless of course you never leave that keyboard and live vicariously through your Drama? I have found some cool stuff in the woods and cool stuff ain't trash, so it isn't mine to take... Period. Why this is even debatable I don't know... but if you find someone else's stuff in the woods and it is bugging you that bad, then have an LEO handle it... pick up a phone and call them!! Acting like a tough guy saving the forest by relieving others of their ground blinds, treestands, and cameras is nothing more than a smoke and mirrors version of a THEIF. Period.

CnS

 

You are the Hypocrite always looking for the grey in order to justify your actions that go against the rules. I can also tell you , being born and raised in Az and being taught from my parents, boy scouts, and school backpacking groups about everything from hunting and fishing to backpacking and survival, I have not Left personal property or trash in our forests. I am from the camp of pack it in pack it out. I have been known to go off on friends who smoke(as I do not) for leaving a smothered cigarette butts and making them pick it up. Who cares if they are not highly enforced laws, that does not change the fact that there are rules and you decide to use the argument "since they are not highly enforced it is Okay for ME", in my opinion it is not Okay . If you Do not like a rule or law, do what needs to be done to try to change it. Again your thought process is one of those liberal notions that helps the arguments that illegals should be given amnesty and green cards. The fact you could not answer my question proves you probably never take the time to know the rules/laws of OUR national forests. So to help you out I will give you some links .... Your Property aka Vehicle or back pack with lunch is not considered abandoned unless unattended for a 24 hour period, it also says that taken abandoned property is to be turned into LEO and Forest service. If I have issue with a stand or blind that has been sitting unused or unattended for days, or weeks it is not that hard to tell the forest service where it is , and yes they do impound them. I do not condone taking another persons property, as I have said many times, but I do not condone people trying to play in the grey who gable with their $$$$ leaving things in our forests only to come on forums and cry that they have been wronged. You take a risk knowing that abandoning something on public lands may disappear that is your fault , not mine or any other hunter on this forum. If I do not agree with you that makes me the enemy, fine, I am not looking to be your friend CnS as that is something that is pretty hard to do when you are always attacking people personally when you get your feelings hurt or do not see eye to eye.

There is nothing hypocritical in doing what I have been taught all my life to do when outdoors using OUR public lands again it is pretty simple.

 

-Follow the laws and Rules of the land (not pick and choose because some are not as enforced)

 

-Pack it in pack it out , always leave the land better when you leave then when you arrived

 

-be respectful and helpful to others

 

for your reading ... and there is a lot of it , as well each forests can make changes and alterations so always best to talk to the Directors in charge of each if any question.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.action?collectionCode=CFR&searchPath=Title+36%2FChapter+I%2FPart+2&granuleId=&packageId=CFR-2007-title36-vol1&oldPath=Title+36%2FChapter+I%2FPart+1&fromPageDetails=true&collapse=true&ycord=400

[gotcoues]

Mmmm.... Sammiches have arrived

[GreyGhost85]

Str8shot, you comparing leaving a blind out for what you see is too long of a period to granting illegal immigrants amnesty is one of the most ridiculous things i have seen on this site. maybe you can contact our wonderful president and try to get this "ethical dilemma" that you so often face brought to congress. if it lies as heavily in stature as the illegal alien debate, i am sure our government will have no choice but to enforce it. Basing someone's political stance on his or her decision about how long to leave a stand out is complete BS. You argue that CnS attacks people on this site, when all i see is you attacking a person that doesn't think the same as you. unless someone is actually breaking a law, save your "ethical" BS for someone that cares. i bet your tag soup with a splash of "ethics" tastes great every year too

[Str8Shot]

Ignorance is Bliss even applies to those Hunters who choose to remain ignorant of the rules/laws .... Ghost if you are saying I would rather follow the rules and be Ethical leaving a tag unfilled, you are correct... While that kind of statement shows you are most likely the kind of hunter that will sacrifice Ethics to fill your tag and for that I am sure you can be proud.

[shanehamblin]

All this thread does is give us all a heads up on who the idiots taking our cameras and stands are. It might make you sleep better at night thinking you do the right thing but fact is that's not your stuff. Next truck you see parked for the 24 hour abandoned property time, jump in an take it. You won't but what makes you think it's any different because it might only be a 75$ camera? Someone worked hard for that money an camera. It just seems like you all think someone has some unfair advantage because all you've done is sit on your butt until opening day. I've heard it a million times. They have 200 cameras out its not even fair. He glasses with kowas it's not even fair. He has a 1000 yard rifle it's not even fair. STFU

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Amen Shane!

 

 

 

Str8Shot,

 

I love the spin zone you live in. If you knew anything about law or law enforcement you would know that it IS up to the digression and interpretation of the LEO... and Even Then we have a court system behind that to Dissect each instance individually. As Shane says above... try to take a truck or a travel trailer that has been "abandoned" by the definition of the Rule you so covet... I bet you land your self-righteous Arse in Jail for grand theft!! hahaha Stealing is stealing....PERIOD. If you have a problem with a camera, groundblind, treesatand, camp, vehicle, or other personal property of value that you "Believe" is abandon on Public land then I suggest you call someone with a badge, a gun, and the legal ability to do something about it... Otherwise... Stealing someone's stuff on public land could result in Murphy's law.... or Karma?

 

And do me a favor... spare us the Sanctimonious BS about how you were raised... cuz you still pull your pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us Sinners... Cheers, Thug!

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I also wonder if you drive Str8Shot? Do you Ever exceed the speed limit? Hate for you to be the Hypocrite I think you are....

[Str8Shot]

Amen Shane!

 

 

 

Str8Shot,

 

I love the spin zone you live in. If you knew anything about law or law enforcement you would know that it IS up to the digression and interpretation of the LEO... and Even Then we have a court system behind that to Dissect each instance individually. As Shane says above... try to take a truck or a travel trailer that has been "abandoned" by the definition of the Rule you so covet... I bet you land your self-righteous Arse in Jail for grand theft!! hahaha Stealing is stealing....PERIOD. If you have a problem with a camera, groundblind, treesatand, camp, vehicle, or other personal property of value that you "Believe" is abandon on Public land then I suggest you call someone with a badge, a gun, and the legal ability to do something about it... Otherwise... Stealing someone's stuff on public land could result in Murphy's law.... or Karma?

 

And do me a favor... spare us the Sanctimonious BS about how you were raised... cuz you still pull your pants on one leg at a time just like the rest of us Sinners... Cheers, Thug!

CnS , you and Shane must have selective reading ... See I would not take something abandoned, but I would let the proper LEO know and I have watched them remove trailers that have sat unattended for weeks trying to secure a site for an upcoming hunt. Just because I do not empathize with those of you who gamble and lose when leaving stuff out on our public lands does not make me one of the people who take stuff... I actually just do not care that much. I would go the route I almost did a couple years ago and may go ahead and do this year ... and that is to create a website publishing GPS coordinates to every stand, cam, blind and honey hole I find in the units I hunt and hike ( I have a pretty good list in some of the more popular units) ... I will make sure to share the link when I get it up and running!

 

 

p.s. CnS when I exceed the speed limit I do not cry when I get caught and given a ticket, even if I was not more than 10 mph over... see that is what taking a gamble may give you in the end. Actions and Consequences ... Make a poor decision and lose that is your fault ... I do not trust enough to leave $$$$ laying unattended in the forests for too long, and the way many of you talk with the thousands of nights of camp set up in my life I must be dang lucky not to never have anything taken.

[Guest wdenike]

WOW!!! All though I'm still a dedicated samwich guy!!!! This has been both entertaining, and educational all in one. LMAO

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take care, Willie

[mattys281]

Guess I'll add ethics to the list with politics and religion to not discuss after the dinner table.

 

I think grey ghost raises some excellent points. Its just my observation, but the most 'ethical' hunters I've known always seem to be the ones holding the empty tag and griping about how others 'cheated' in some way or another.

 

Incidentally, I used to be one of the worst about that. All kinds of ethics against technology, cameras, guides, you name it. Had a buddy call me out on it while shooting one day.

 

Him: "so how many deer you killed anyway?"

me: "...... none yet...."

him: "its hard enough, why do you want to make it so much tougher on yourself?"

me: ......... (no good answer)

 

I bought a rangefinder, starting shooting my bow at 'rifle range' (anything over 40 yards), started playing with cameras the prime benefit of which is it gets my butt out scouting and hiking more. Wouldnt you know it, I eased up on my ethics a little and now, looking back over the last 10 years or so I've killed a handful of deer and honestly can't remember the last year I didn't have at least a couple shot opportunities.

 

Anyhow.... you all can have your ethics, the only question I have is legal or not legal?

[Havasuhunter]

In case anyone is wondering, since there seems to be a lot of people that assume things. I really don't think the hunters that are arguing for "leave no trace" are out stealing your stuff, I know I'm not. I may leave a note or report it if it's been there year round, but I'm not taking it. If a homemade blind is deteriated and falling apart, or full of trash, I will throw away the trash. I'm not messing with someone's well maintained blind, I may even sit in it on occasion.

The wilderness is s tough one, I would like to remove blinds and cameras from wilderness areas as they are strictly prohibited, but I'm already carrying as much weight as I can handle, so I'm not messing with it.

I haven't yet, but I'm even interested in putting some cameras out myself. They will be well hidden and way back from easy access for sure.

[5guyshunting]

[GreyGhost85]

Str8shot, go put the Boonedock saints in the vcr and watch them live the life you do behind your keyboard. You should change your avatar picture by taking away his guns and holding a keyboard in one hand and a copy of the regs in the other. Can't wait to get a pic of you on one of my 20 cameras i run over salt licks, that may or may not have a stand placed near them. that'll never happen though, as it's hard to drag your computer desk through the woods

[Str8Shot]

Str8shot, go put the Boonedock saints in the vcr and watch them live the life you do behind your keyboard. You should change your avatar picture by taking away his guns and holding a keyboard in one hand and a copy of the regs in the other. Can't wait to get a pic of you on one of my 20 cameras i run over salt licks, that may or may not have a stand placed near them. that'll never happen though, as it's hard to drag your computer desk through the woods

Even ignorant to technology these days, if you think when I am miles from any road that I can not connect ... heck it is amazing how often you find decent data signal by pushing up to top of some of the big hills... by this time next year you will know if I have visited your cameras , licks and blinds as the GPS locations will be published for all to see... I started the framework a couple years ago and pulled back because of some decent guys on this and another site asking me to. If you think I am not willing to put the boots to the ground, you are very misguided and I would even bet that their are enough willing to pay for that kind of information to make a full time career of it.... I guess the whole first come first serve ethics will be put to the test more as placing personal property and leaving it on OUR public lands does not make it your spot...

[Havasuhunter]

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When the horse named ethics dies, we'll all lose access to the places we love. Would be nice if people were more civil and could grow up a little, but a very important discussion regardless.