russd Report post Posted February 9, 2015 http://azdailysun.com/news/stronger-push-toward-creating-a-grand-canyon-watershed-national-monument/article_7d810159-1289-52ad-b225-7d0eae42a781.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sneaker Report post Posted March 4, 2015 Not good for hunting... http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/news/press_releases/2015/grand-canyon-watershed-01-30-2015.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted March 4, 2015 Not good for hunting or hardly anything else. We have learned from all the other wilderness or primitive designations that these special designations prevent AGFD, USFS and BLM from properly managing the assets of the area. The elimination of roads is also discriminatory to the elderly, children and handicapped that also like to enjoy the wildlife with normal and legal access! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SWDesertRat Report post Posted March 4, 2015 The last two national monuments ( Agua Fria and Ironwood National Forest) were designated in Az, are multi use and hunting is allowed, as are atv and utvs. Wilderness designation by forest and blm gets reviewed on an cyclical basis, as long as a roadless area meets the primary components it can be designated. Wilderness designation is a public process, where we can all (and should) provide feed back to the land management agency. whereas national monument designation is executive order....and the managing agency is forced to deal with the new designation and create management plans etc. Im not sayings its right or wrong, Id just like the facts to be clear on perception vs facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted March 4, 2015 "Wilderness designation by forest and blm gets reviewed on an cyclical basis". Is there any time in history a wilderness or primitive area status has been changed? If so, I'm not aware of it. These designations are almost as detrimental as the unreasonable environmental regulations that Jimmy Carter created in the 1970's. Once they happen, there is no going back or bringing common sense into the equation! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SWDesertRat Report post Posted March 4, 2015 "Wilderness designation by forest and blm gets reviewed on an cyclical basis". Is there any time in history a wilderness or primitive area status has been changed? If so, I'm not aware of it. These designations are almost as detrimental as the unreasonable environmental regulations that Jimmy Carter created in the 1970's. Once they happen, there is no going back or bringing common sense into the equation! You mean a wilderness or conservation area being changed to non wilderness designation? Without me doing additional research, Id have to say no. To my knowledge once a primitive, wilderness, or conservation area has been designated it has not been 'undesignated'. However what I did mean in my post is that the land management agencies were are required by the wilderness act to do wilderness designation reviews on their forests or land. They will have certain pieces of acreage without roads (or maybe with roads that can be closed) and meeting the primary essential elements of wilderness designation. Once these areas are identified and selected, the public process is started( public meetings, etc) and final determination. Congress can also get involved in wilderness designations but Im not familiar with that. Wish I could give you more info, all Im stating is what I am familiar with what has been done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alpinebullwinkle Report post Posted March 4, 2015 Understood Desert Rat. All I'm saying is these special designations (just like the wolf reintroduction program) "sound right" to the general public and are supported by them without full knowledge of the consequences........ which can be surprisingly devastating and unrepairable in our lifetime. Once established, politics unfortunately gets in the way of any future renewal or enhancement process. The environmental regulations created in the 1970's under the Jimmy Carter regime were well intended and needed, but unfortunately had some significant flaws, one being that common sense was not part of the equation or process. 35 years later we still have not improved the process, even though those outdated environmental laws have severely hurt our country in many ways. Bottom line......beware of any future special land designations......... which will likely have unintended consequences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SWDesertRat Report post Posted March 5, 2015 Oh I completely agree with you about awareness of land designation...as tax payers, voters and especially as hunters and anglers (people directly footing the bill for on the ground conservation) we should pay close attention to how the designations affect future generations as well as what we try to do now. I'm guilty as the next guy whining about things on a forum but when it comes down to informing the policy makers I find other personal, work etc reasons to take my attention and keeping me from actually voicing my opinion or concerns. Anyways...I ramble too much. Maybe our posts will help keep this thread at the top though so more will pay attention. Thanks for the dialogue Alpine.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brian390 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 Here is the link to the petition to STOP the grand canyon watershed national monument: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/stop-grand-canyon-watershed-national-monument Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brian390 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 You can also email your comments to Molly Brown: Molly.Brown@mail.House.gov She is looking for comments from sportsman and their opinions about the national monument. Representative Kirkpatrick commented to someone from another forum that she has received 1300 comments so far and 92 percent have been in favor of the monument. Interesting being that we as sportsman just learned about it. So flood her inbox if you can. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4Falls Report post Posted March 13, 2015 Kirikpatrick just held a closed door meeting on this very subject. The fact that she keeps getting reelected to office is almost as baffling as the last presidential election. If shes involved in this you can bet its not a good deal for us or for the state for that matter. Anything with support from CBD or the Sierra Club typically does not get my support, and last I heard they were the real drivers behind this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brian390 Report post Posted March 13, 2015 I signed the petition. The petition says that it has a goal of 1,000 signatures and it looks like there is only 142 signatures so far. Sportsman need to fight against this monument or things will be ruined for a long time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted March 15, 2015 fyi, I am consolidating all the Monument info into a main thread so it's easier for everyone to find relevant info. that thread is here: http://www.coueswhitetail.com/forums/topic/56377-grand-canyon-national-monument-proposal-main-thread-information-and-actions-you-can-take/ I will close this one so that we can get people all posting in one thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
