Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted January 27, 2015 Has anyone noticed the Huge spike in successful spot and stalk archery deer hunters this last year or is it just me? It seems there are twice as many guys out there glassing hills and ground checking Giant Mulies and some great Coues as well... not to mention all the average bucks posted on the internet collectively. A huge congrats to all these guys and congrats to each and everyone of the successful archery hunters in late 2014/ early 2015... My Question: Is this partially due to the fact that less guys are sitting ground blinds and treestands since the banning of Baiting in AZ? Lets face it the baiting ban was shoved down our throats with a rouse of CWD but it was really about too many archery hunters filling tags... and hunters would not unite behind the few who tried to stand up for bow hunters. (A rule they seem to not be enforcing btw, considering how many bait piles a guy can still find if he really looks in some of the old popular spots) But lets face it, the number of coues deer bucks being harvested in the Rim Country Crashed! ...and that was one of their main target areas (a pet project agenda of a couple department officials). They were worried about the deer that rifle hunters weren't impacting because "Baiters" were hunting the nasty thick overgrown country that Can't be effectively hunted with a gun... After passing the new rule they even went as far as to remove the mandatory check in of archery harvested deer? Were they That confident that they had solved their perceived "archery over harvest Problem" that they didn't even need to see where harvested deer were coming from any more or how those harvests may impact the ridiculous amounts of early rifle buck tags? My Point: You guys didn't stand with the few baiters when they needed you... Are you gunna ask for those same guys to stand with you when they decided that their plan "Backfired" and more changes are needed to "reel in archer deer success"??? Just curious.... 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CWpredator Report post Posted January 27, 2015 I don't think the real problem is the archery deer hunters success one bit. The real problem is the extra early rifle hunts they added a few years back and the extreme over saturation of rifle tags. Everyone is now starting to see this catch up with the deer and becoming harder and harder to find a quality buck. This causing a lot more guys to now go deeper and further in country they never did before. All around its been a vicious cycle to the deer quality. As far as the archery success I don't know how much more can be taken away from archery hunters considering the disadvantage they are already at. It's Just starting to get a bit ridiculous that "the problem is archery hunters are to successful"..... Just read the hunt success numbers in the regs. Almost every rifle hunt no matter the quality is going to have a much higher success rate than the archery hunters. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost85 Report post Posted January 27, 2015 i have noticed a huge spike in successful archery hunts. I have heard rumor that the days of OTC archery deer are going to come to an end because of this. I think that a lot of what's happening is more and more people are hunting now, and people are actually getting pretty good at it. Everyone has high end optics anymore and have figured out how to glass. The amount of big animals being killed across all hunts is astonishing, Times are changing, people are able to find animals better and shoot further than ever before. I witnessed a virtual elk slaughter in the 27 late bull hunt this year. Out of all the hunters i talked to, i would say the average shot was 600 yards. Times are changing, and the way that the hunts are structured is going to change a lot. I guarantee we will see a huge cutback in rifle tags, an increase in muzzleloader tags (and muzzleoaders being changed to open site and traditional like many states are now doing) and archery deer going to a draw statewide. congrats to all the hunters that have capitalized on taking trophy animals as of late, but things will have to change if we expect Arizona to keep producing so many trophy class animals. Sorry if i hi-jacked your thread with this post, but i think that there are a lot of things that have gone into play the last couple of years which amount to a huge number of mature animals being taken 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted January 27, 2015 Funny we were told too many hunters were successful using bait and it needed to be stopped. Load Of Crap 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CWpredator Report post Posted January 27, 2015 Well since spot and stalk archery hunting is to successful of a method we should request a ban on that as well... Tree stand only from now on while archery hunting. I'd love to see a bunch of bowhunters 4 feet off the ground setup in paloverde and mesquite trees... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted January 27, 2015 For the record... this is just a thought that has been rattling around in my hollow head for a week or two... and I encourage the replies, cuz I am curious. Cheers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRDATR Report post Posted January 27, 2015 I chalk it up to more dedication and better equipment which allows for longer distance shots. Add that to social media and more deer pics get posted. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AverageJoe Report post Posted January 27, 2015 More hunters in the field in general. Hunting is becoming much more popular imo. Even liberals are starting to hunt. I for one want as many hunters as possible in the field and am constantly trying to recruit new hunters. This is my way of ensuring hunting will continue long after i am gone. I dont give a dang if i dont deaw a tag as often or get that 400" bull. Its all about the big picture. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Becker Report post Posted January 27, 2015 I would like to see the actual numbers and be able to compare. Bait vs No Bait. Like you said the bait ban was not scientific or numbers based. Now without mandatory harvest reporting we will never know. Another factor to consider.......Are harvest numbers actually up/down or are we just seeing more pics because of the popularity of public forums. Face Book is unreal these days. I can post a pic of a large deer in my taxidermy shop and have 1000 or more people see it in less than an hour. My Opinion, G and F really needs mandatory reporting on everything. Bottom line. They have no clue whats actually going on. They have a hint but thats just it "a hint". Basing tag numbers on extrapolated harvest data never seemed like a good idea to me. I understand extrapolating population numbers but then not actually knowing how many animals are taken to compare seems absurd. One semi unknown vs an actual number seems better than having two somewhat unknowns right??? As to the archery hunts becoming draw tags, I don't get that idea either. I would rather see a mandatory reporting and have a quota similar to bear hunts. Anyone could go hunt their favorite unit until the quota was met, thus achieving both of their(GandF's) goals. They would still sell lots of tags but could limit the number of deer harvested. I see a draw hunt cramming in too many archery hunters and further complaints equal to what we already have on say the elk hunts. Obviously they(GandF) have a set number of deer they want to see taken. Doesn't seem that hard to make that happen without removing people out of the game right off the bat. RIGHT? I also can't argue against archery hunters being way better these days than say even ten years ago. The technology is so great anymore. But that doesn't make a difference to me. Trying to figure out how to limit the numbers taken is where the fault and problems come into play. There are better ways to limit success than cram more and more people into a unit/or limit hunters on technology IMO. If we want to go the less technology route we should all be hunting with a spear with a sharp rock on the end of it. 1000 yard guns, 100 yard bows, WHO CARES, lets decide on how many animals we want killed and dictate that, not manage the guys who invest in the techno side. If you wanna use an old muzzy vs the new good for you, go for it. I prefer my technology though. If you wanna sit over bait or spot and spook, go for it. 12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted January 27, 2015 I totally agree Devin... great post. When they took baiting I recommended a harvest objective approach rather than a rule change... but it was agenda driven and no one was heard. I am curious what comes next.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naturebob Report post Posted January 27, 2015 I still like the idea of mandatory reporting on both hunts the way N Mexico does it..........BOB! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 300ultramag. Report post Posted January 27, 2015 I think people simply cant resist posting their success..... This equates to G&F taking note of the harvests and adjusting the tags accordingly. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HuntHarder Report post Posted January 28, 2015 Much more guys in the field, taking much longer shots. Posting their pics on facebook, instagram and all hunting websites. I think if you add all those up, you get the answer. OTC was nice while it lasted.. 2 year tops IMO left for it. It is no coincidence that archery antelope tags in a few of the better units have dropped over the last few years as well. Longer shots and more harvest. Bow hunting is suppose to be harder, but many are proving it is not as hard as it once was. No real way to limit technology of bows, only option left is cutting tag #'s. AZGF has a tough job, and I hope they make the right decisions going forward with our game. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seldom Drawn Report post Posted January 28, 2015 Has anyone noticed the Huge spike in successful spot and stalk archery deer hunters this last year or is it just me? It seems there are twice as many guys out there glassing hills and ground checking Giant Mulies and some great Coues as well... not to mention all the average bucks posted on the internet collectively. A huge congrats to all these guys and congrats to each and everyone of the successful archery hunters in late 2014/ early 2015... My Question: Is this partially due to the fact that less guys are sitting ground blinds and treestands since the banning of Baiting in AZ? Lets face it the baiting ban was shoved down our throats with a rouse of CWD but it was really about too many archery hunters filling tags... and hunters would not unite behind the few who tried to stand up for bow hunters. (A rule they seem to not be enforcing btw, considering how many bait piles a guy can still find if he really looks in some of the old popular spots) But lets face it, the number of coues deer bucks being harvested in the Rim Country Crashed! ...and that was one of their main target areas (a pet project agenda of a couple department officials). They were worried about the deer that rifle hunters weren't impacting because "Baiters" were hunting the nasty thick overgrown country that Can't be effectively hunted with a gun... After passing the new rule they even went as far as to remove the mandatory check in of archery harvested deer? Were they That confident that they had solved their perceived "archery over harvest Problem" that they didn't even need to see where harvested deer were coming from any more or how those harvests may impact the ridiculous amounts of early rifle buck tags? My Point: You guys didn't stand with the few baiters when they needed you... Are you gunna ask for those same guys to stand with you when they decided that their plan "Backfired" and more changes are needed to "reel in archer deer success"??? Just curious.... Other then guides and outfitters who have to abide to this or chance losing there license, and a few diy hunters that are law abiding do you really think most hunters have stopped baiting there is no enforcement of this ban.and still a ton of bait out their. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildwoody Report post Posted January 28, 2015 Yup. We the people for the people, government is for them selves. My opinion 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
