Buck to Doe Ratio

[scoutm]

While out scouting last weekend with Sun Devil we really noticed or believed that the Buck to Doe Ratio was out of wack. This made me curious about what an appropiate buck to doe ratio should be in order to maximize a deer herds potential. Everything I have read promotes a ratio of 1:1 or 1:2. Further articles have stated that when the ratio gets to 1:5 the herds potential diminishes greatly interms of age demographic of the heard, recoupment protential and antler growth.

 

The ratio we observed was close to 1:10. I'm sure we missed several bucks as they were the first to bed but even if we assume for every buck we saw we missed one the ratio would be 1:5 (I don't think we missed that many). So, from what I've read when the herd gets to this point the vast majority of the bucks, due to hunting presure, will be under the age of three. Based on bucks we saw and based on the size of the bucks I believe this holds true for our observations. At age three the bucks are just starting to mature and over the next three years their antlers will be at there peak.

 

What has everyone else seen? Does anyone know what GF's target ratio is? If the ratio is out of wack what can be done to restore it to a level that does maximize the herd?

[mattys281]

I've read that desired rations for trophy management were something like 1:5 ish. If it gets lower than that, there's too many bucks for the dominants to fight off, & if it gets higher than that, there's too many does for them to tend, without the forkies sneaking some action in. What I read was based on eastern whitetails though, so I don't know how applicable it would be to us out here.

 

This is a great one for Amanda & some of our other resident biologists to field.

[elkhunter]

I say 1 buck per 5 does sounds about right. Remeber one buck can fertilize 15 does or more. To maximize the deer population, the females must not be harvest and every female needs to give birth to offsprings. There's alot of does out there so I'd say the buck doe ratio should be 1:5-1:10, if the ratio was 1:1, the population of offspring would be same as if it was 1:5 to 1:10, just because 1 buck can mate with many honeys.

 

I'm taking wildlife management course next semester and should be able to have a better answer then.

[CouesWhitetail]

Buck to doe ratios are more commonly given in terms of bucks per 100 does. So if you have 1 buck for every 2 does, that is 50 bucks per 100 does. Hunter harvest drives down buck:doe ratios. In general, the more hunters, the more mortality on the bucks increases. Most of the WT hunt units in AZ have somewhere around 20-35 bucks per 100 does. When I first started this website, I put the data for WT from the Hunt Arizona publication from AGFD. Every year AGFD publishes (I think the next one will come out in May?) the survey data they have for each unit. They also have some summaries of the last five years. Here is a link to a five year summary of data from 1997 to 2001. http://www.coueswhitetail.com/where_to_hun..._coues_data.htm

That data and more are in the Where to Hunt section of the main CouesWhitetail.com website.

 

Here is what AGFD recommended for the 2006-07 hunt guidelines for Whitetailed deer:

 

Permits should :...............Decrease..............Stay the Same........Increase

 

Fawns:100 Does................Below 35..............35 to 45.................Above 45

Bucks:100 Does................Below 20..............20 to 30.................Above 30

Hunt Success....................Below 15%...........15 to 20%..............Above 20%

Population Trend...............Declining...............Stable...................Increasing

 

 

So AGFD will change their hunt recommendations based on the data from surveys flown in the winter. The table above shows that AGFD will recommend an increase in permits (tags) if the buck to doe ratio gets above 30.

 

 

Amanda

[CouesWhitetail]

Sorry, it looks like the formatting on that table didn't work out. I will see if I can get it to show up properly. Might take awhile.....

 

 

(ok, I added in the dots to make the columns work)

[SunDevil]

So Saturday was our only full day scouting. In total we spent about 8 hours hiking and glassing (6 in the morning and 2 in the evening). The area we were at in the morning was different than for the 10:00 am stretch and yet another completely different area in the evening. We estimated we saw 60 different deer on saturday. 55 does and fawns and 5 bucks. This would be 9 bucks per 100 does/fawns. If you took the fawns out the number would go up slightly. I do not think a third of the does and fawns we saw were fawns. Probably more like 20%. This would make 5 bucks, 11 fawns and 44 does. This would make 11 bucks per 100 does. Even if a third of the does and fawns were fawns this would only increase the ratio to 14 bucks per 100 does. Also, if you assume we may have missed a couple of bucks (it was our observation the bucks were bedding significantly sooner than the does and fawns) the number would go up slightly.

 

So based on Amanda's information earlier. This unit would be below target for fawns per 100 does and below target for bucks per 100 does. I would guess the population in this unit to be stable and the hunter success for all hunts combined is > 20%. 2 of the indicators would be to decrease tags, 1 would be to hold the same and 1 would be to increase. It will be interesting to see what the G & F does with tags for 2007. Doubt they will go down. FYI - last year the number of tags in this unit for the Dec hunt doubled. Later. Chris.

[scoutm]

Here are two articles I've read:

 

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/wild/...ement/deer/age/

 

http://www.buckmanager.com/2007/03/11/impo...k-to-doe-ratio/

 

No where have I found that ratios above 1:5 or 20:100 would reflect a healthy heard - health as defined by one that has appropriate fawn to doe ratio, an appropirate age distribution of does and bucks and produces maximum antler growth. I've read over 15 articles in the last two days and it seems that they all agree that when you get to 1:5 ratio the heard starts having problems.

 

There was one article that talked about the impact of the rut on bucks when the ratio is out of wack. I couldn't find it again but it's main point was with a buck to doe ratio that is too low the rut takes too much out of the dominate bucks which puts them at greater risk of predation and physically puts them behind when they start to grow their new atlers resulting in smaller ones.

 

I don't want to make it sound like it's all about the antlers because it's not. There are as many people on this site that are for quantity as there are for quality. And based on all my reading a balanced herd provides more opportunity for both.

[azcouesandelk]

I have been in areas that I have seen buck to do ratios of 1:3 and some that are 1:8. I think it is all about the food/water in the area. Also if you were seeing that many fawns I think that a good portion are bucks. And there are always the bucks we never see. I would say most areas have a buck to doe ratio around 1:6 or so.

[stanley]

This is an interesting topic. Maybe Jim H. will jump-in here when he sees it....

 

When I was hunting last November, I camped-out with the WM for the unit we were hunting in. One evening we were talking a bit about buck to doe ratios. I don't remember what his specific targets were for his unit, but one thing that interested me was that he said he manages the coues different than the muleys from a buck to doe perspective. He said that this is primarily because they rut & breed differently. Something like the muleys were more 'harrem' driven, trying to round-up does and then keep other bucks away, where the coues tended to be a bit more nomatic in their approach to breeding. Reminds me of some guys I know.....

 

Like I said, interesting topic...

 

S.

 

[CouesWhitetail]

I emailed Jim H. to let him know about the topic. Awhile back he told me AGFD was going to have someone watching the forum and get appropriate personnel to reply to topics that were relevant. Hopefully we will get some AGFD input on this one.

 

Amanda

[shortpants]

I don't think you can come up with a accurate buck to doe ratio in a day of glassing.

You could go back to that same spot a month from now and possibly come up with totally different results.

I have had days where I couldn't hardly find a doe but the bucks where everywhere.

I would hope that when Game and Fish decides whether or not to raise or lower tags in an area they do more research than to send one warden out for a day of glassing.

I'm not picking on you guys I'm just sayin I don't think a day of glassing should be considered scientific research.

Just my .2cents.

[elkhunter]

Shortpants- Most biological research takes years before coming up with a conclusion, not so much of 1 day of glassing, so no worries there

[scoutm]

I don't think you can come up with a accurate buck to doe ratio in a day of glassing.

You could go back to that same spot a month from now and possibly come up with totally different results.

I have had days where I couldn't hardly find a doe but the bucks where everywhere.

I would hope that when Game and Fish decides whether or not to raise or lower tags in an area they do more research than to send one warden out for a day of glassing.

I'm not picking on you guys I'm just sayin I don't think a day of glassing should be considered scientific research.

Just my .2cents.

 

 

I'm not nor did I suggest that our time in the field qualifed as "scientific research" I simply stated that our day in the field raised what I thought was an interesting question one that would be interesting to discuss on this forum.

 

The questions posed were - if anyone knows what GF's target ratio is? and IF it's out of whack what could be done about it?

[shortpants]

The topic is very interesting and I'm glad you started it.

My last post was directed more at your opening statement that stated you thought the ratio was out of whack in that area.

The rest of your post is filled with good info and great questions.

I wasn't trying to ruffle any feathers.

[missedagain]

I don't think you can come up with a accurate buck to doe ratio in a day of glassing.

You could go back to that same spot a month from now and possibly come up with totally different results.

I have had days where I couldn't hardly find a doe but the bucks where everywhere.

I would hope that when Game and Fish decides whether or not to raise or lower tags in an area they do more research than to send one warden out for a day of glassing.

I'm not picking on you guys I'm just sayin I don't think a day of glassing should be considered scientific research.

Just my .2cents.

 

The scary thing is that I have heard that the g$f does less than this on their game surveys, one of my buddys that is g$f says that they do one helicopter flyover every other year because of lack of funds. And this helicopter survey is planned ahead of time so you can imagine that if it happens to be raining or 30 mph winds that day the survey can be very skewed.