Jdubbs07 Report post Posted December 27, 2014 So I have done hours of research in the last few years about the draw itself, the odds, bonus points and the whole bit. However this year I pose a question I can't seem to find the answer for. It may be possible that I might not find it but this is worth a shot. I know each draw for each genus allocates 20% of its tags to the bonus pass round and to Non-Residents (NR). 10% goes to bonus pass holders and the other 10% to NR. I have unitized in the past the bonus point report the g&f puts out relaying information that shows how many people in each hunt number put in and also how many bonus points of each individual that put in. However I would like to find (if possible) a way to see how many NR put in and their bonus point totals. If you are unfamiliar with this report I will post a link with this report below. http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/documents/bonus/5-2014/2014%20Pronghorn%20and%20Elk%20-%20Bonus%20Point%20Report%20-%20Bonus%20Pass%20by%20Hunt%20Number.pdf The reason I ask is because this year my brother has moved out of state and will now be considered a NR. We put in for the same hunt every year. This isn't a premier unit, however I'm curious to know that if I decide to still split the app with him this year if it could help or hinder me in the draw. For example, I know that if in the second phase of the draw (after the bonus pass round) when they look at our application and there are still enough tags left to fill for our first choice, and the 10% cap for NR has already been met, then it's tough luck for me and they won't give us tags because I would have a NR on my app and they won't allow exceeding the 10% NR cap. (I discussed with a g&f rep). However I can see this going two ways, yes this is a September archery bull hunt, but it is not a premier unit, and it could be possible that if when our app is looked at and the 10% cap for NR has not been met for this hunt number, then I will be lucky because having the NR on my app gives me a tag also. (I also discussed this with a g&f rep) so these are not made up scenarios. I could either get lucky and have the advantage and draw a tag when the NR on my app does, or get screwed and kicked out until the 3 phase of the draw even if there are permits left for my choice because I have a NR on my app and the 10% cap has already been met. If there were a report showing how many NR put in and thier total number of bonus points I would be able to see if it would be advantageous to keep my non resident brother on my app or opt to go solo and have better odds not having him on my app. The hard part is he is my brother and we always put in together because we always want to hunt together. We have the same amount of bonus points so nothing hurts us there. Anyways if anyone knows of a report of such information and or can give some advice or experience on this topic it would be much appreciated. Thank you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Big Browns Report post Posted December 27, 2014 The way I understand the NR draw is UP TO 10% of the tags can go to NR. That means they do not hold 10% of the tags. That means there are years or units that may not reach the 10% due to all the NR not drawing a low number in the draw that given year. If I'm correct I don't see how putting in with a NR can help you. You will still have to have enough points to draw a good number so you have a better number in line. That's how I understand the draw. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Adam 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heat Report post Posted December 27, 2014 Big Browns is 100% correct. Don't over-complicate this. You're a resident and YOUR best odds of drawing will be to apply solo unless the NR has so many bonus points that it puts you over the top no matter what. Advice for those who have family members or if you yourself ever leave AZ. Buy a Lifetime License before you move and you will be considered a resident for life as far as the draw is concerned. That is huge! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flatlander Report post Posted December 27, 2014 Here is the response I posted in your other thread: Your understanding of the draw is only partially correct. The 20% of tags allocated to the bonus pass are not divided 10% to "bonus pass holders" and 10% to NR. The full 20% of tags are awarded t I the individuals with the most BP and no more than 10% of tags may be awarded to NR. Meaning if a hunt had 100 permits, the first 20 are awarded to those with the most BP regardless of residency. If fewer than 10 were awarded to NR (let's say 7 in our example) in that round, then when tags were awarded via the 1-2 pass, up to 3 more NR could receive tags from that process if their random number was selected. The short answer is that yes, having a NR on your app will make it more difficult to draw a tag. However which hunt you are applying for will determine how much your odds are reduced. Game and fish does not offer a report with this information on their website, so a public information request would need to be submitted in order to get it. I hope this helps. Good job on doing all the research, not many do, and it can make a world of difference on how and when you receive tags. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goinhuntn Report post Posted December 27, 2014 My father is a resident & I am a nonresident we never apply together for the simple fact I don't want to ruin his odds. We do apply for the same units in the same order, and a few times he has drawn his first choice & I drew my second choice. Than we make a decision to either hunt solo or one of us turns our tag in, and we go together. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sneaker Report post Posted December 27, 2014 Big Brown is right 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jdubbs07 Report post Posted December 27, 2014 Thank you guys a ton. All your information was very helpful and insightful. I was unaware that often times the 10% cap doesn't fill up and how you explained in Big Brown and Flatlander is very comprehensible. Also it's good to know that if you buy a lifetime resident license and you move, then you are still considered a resident. That's great news. I was also unaware of that. Thanks a bunch fellows. I greatly appreciate your responses. Good luck to you all in the draw this next year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgraffaz Report post Posted January 13, 2015 Big Browns is 100% correct. Don't over-complicate this. You're a resident and YOUR best odds of drawing will be to apply solo unless the NR has so many bonus points that it puts you over the top no matter what. Advice for those who have family members or if you yourself ever leave AZ. Buy a Lifetime License before you move and you will be considered a resident for life as far as the draw is concerned. That is huge! I think you wrong.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1uglydude Report post Posted January 13, 2015 Just to complicate things for you a bit more, the Department is currently going through the process of amending the Article I rules on the draw, and it looks like there will be some changes to the NR/Bonus pass process in the future (2016). If the proposed rule change happens, then there will still be a 10% non resident cap, but no more than half of those tags can be allocated during the bonus pass. In the tough to draw units today, the only chance a non-resident has to draw is to have max points because all non-resident tags go in the bonus pass. Under this change, that won't happen anymore because the cap could never be reached in the bonus pass. Non-residents have figured this out, and some aren't bothering to apply anymore. I like the proposed change. It gets more non-residents to spend their money here, helps prevent point creep for residents because more residents will draw bonus pass tags, and doesn't change the number of tags that might go to non-residents. In fact, it is quite possible that there will be years when non-residents end up getting LESS than 10% of the tags in a unit because their numbers weren't high enough to pull the remaining 5% of their cap from the general draw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1uglydude Report post Posted January 13, 2015 Big Browns is 100% correct. Don't over-complicate this. You're a resident and YOUR best odds of drawing will be to apply solo unless the NR has so many bonus points that it puts you over the top no matter what. Advice for those who have family members or if you yourself ever leave AZ. Buy a Lifetime License before you move and you will be considered a resident for life as far as the draw is concerned. That is huge! I think you wrong.... You need to copy the next column on that portion of the regs. You both have it partially correct. If you have a lifetime license and move, then you must purchase tags at the non-resident price, but you are not lumped into the 10% non-resident cap. So, you're treated like a resident for purposes of the draw, but treated like a non-resident in that you have to pay the higher price for tags. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sneaker Report post Posted January 13, 2015 ^^^ YUUUUPPP Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heat Report post Posted January 13, 2015 I never said you get to pay resident tag fees for life, I said you will be considered a resident as far as the draw is concerned and I stand 100% by my statement! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgraffaz Report post Posted January 13, 2015 OK so if you have an Az life time license and you move then you pay for non rez price but it is like being a rez in terms of draw odds, sorry for not posting that last part, I jumped the gun! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jgraffaz Report post Posted January 13, 2015 The online app is up! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
