dcarrot Report post Posted April 19, 2007 They tried to "herd" the excess deer off the Kaibab years ago, utter failure. Moving large numbers of ungulates is cost prohibitive, and would probably result in many deer dieing in the capture/transport process. The bottom line is habitat. And up there the limiting habitat is winter range. You have to improve the range to increase the deer herd. The large doe/fawn ratio coming will impact that habitat and hurt the long term productivity of the Kaibab. Sacrifice some does now so there can be more bucks in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DesertBull Report post Posted April 19, 2007 They tried to "herd" the excess deer off the Kaibab years ago, utter failure. Moving large numbers of ungulates is cost prohibitive, and would probably result in many deer dieing in the capture/transport process. The bottom line is habitat. And up there the limiting habitat is winter range. You have to improve the range to increase the deer herd. The large doe/fawn ratio coming will impact that habitat and hurt the long term productivity of the Kaibab. Sacrifice some does now so there can be more bucks in the future. That's fine, but why do they continue to want to kill all the bucks too? They have no problem decimating the Kaibab herd, but they get their undies cranked up their butt if a archer kills a coues over salt? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mulie hunter Report post Posted April 19, 2007 They tried to "herd" the excess deer off the Kaibab years ago, utter failure. Moving large numbers of ungulates is cost prohibitive, and would probably result in many deer dieing in the capture/transport process. The bottom line is habitat. And up there the limiting habitat is winter range. You have to improve the range to increase the deer herd. The large doe/fawn ratio coming will impact that habitat and hurt the long term productivity of the Kaibab. Sacrifice some does now so there can be more bucks in the future. I haven't seen enough evidence to buy that arguement!! To me it is overkill!! I personally don't buy the doe fawn ratios on the Kaibab. Increasing the doe tags by 700 and uping the buck tags c'mon. gotta be the $$$$$!!!!! I archery hunt the Kaibab and love it, so I hope they don't destroy it!!! Here's today Question: For every doe killed how many deer are you really killing? Think about it!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dcarrot Report post Posted April 19, 2007 Here's today Question: For every doe killed how many deer are you really killing? Think about it!! It's not that straight forward. Here's an example used at a Hunter Ed class I was at. You have a jar, it will hold 100 marbles and no more. Right now that jar is filled with 50 red and 50 blue. You can't get anymore red in, no matter what. But if you remove 10 blue ones you can add 10 red ones. Still 100 marbles but now 60 red ones and 40 blue ones. It's a simple explanation of carrying capacity but it helps to visualize it. If you are over the carrying capacity on the winter range, then removing some does will allow for more bucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dogman68 Report post Posted April 20, 2007 Here's today Question: For every doe killed how many deer are you really killing? Think about it!! It's not that straight forward. Here's an example used at a Hunter Ed class I was at. You have a jar, it will hold 100 marbles and no more. Right now that jar is filled with 50 red and 50 blue. You can't get anymore red in, no matter what. But if you remove 10 blue ones you can add 10 red ones. Still 100 marbles but now 60 red ones and 40 blue ones. It's a simple explanation of carrying capacity but it helps to visualize it. If you are over the carrying capacity on the winter range, then removing some does will allow for more bucks. That's logical if not for the fact that nobody is dropping 10 marbles into the buck pool. You are removing 30 blue marbles and 30 red marbles. Now you are short 40 marbles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dcarrot Report post Posted April 20, 2007 Modern math, huh? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
missedagain Report post Posted April 20, 2007 Modern math, huh? IMO one of the proofs that az deer management (term used very loosely) is so messed up is that the g$f has no idea what the real carrying capacity is of the land. In the three bar study the deer population was about 10 times as high as the biologist thought that it could be with no adverse affect on vegetation. And who needs winter range in az when you never have more than a few inches of snow on the ground at one time anyway. So if you have 100 marbles in a jar and you take out all of the salt how many more marbles can you feed to the lions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dcarrot Report post Posted April 20, 2007 And who needs winter range in az It's not just snow cover that dictates winter movements. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
