North Kaibab deer

[dogman68]

Just spent 4 wonderful days on the north kaibab. I can remember, growing up as a kid, when unit 7 near Flagstaff had better and more deer than the Kaibab does now.

Pretty sad. Hopefully some day someone will wake up and it will return to what it is capable of being for the hunters that will come after.

[josh]

Maybe before that happens G&F can just go ahead and authorize 2000 permits for each area in the Kaibab In order to bring down the huge numbers of deer in that area.Ha ha

[AZP&Y]

Dogman68,

 

Interesting words for sure, I didn't draw archery elk for the first time in 6 years and was thinking of putting all of my hunt time into an archery "north kaibab" hunt. In the end I wonder if 10 straight hunting days up there is the way to go? All my mind can tell me is "go" to the north kaibab.

 

More than harvesting a deer, would be the 'hunt experience'...

 

AzP&Y

[111]

All my mind can tell me is "go" to the north kaibab.

 

That's all that's on my mind also after three years of elk tags. I consider the Kaibab a fantastic consulation prize to all of us who don't draw an interfering hunt early in the year. Even though I remember seeing very few bucks in 03', there's no other place I would rather be that time of year...

[dogman68]

All my mind can tell me is "go" to the north kaibab.

 

That's all that's on my mind also after three years of elk tags. I consider the Kaibab a fantastic consulation prize to all of us who don't draw an interfering hunt early in the year. Even though I remember seeing very few bucks in 03', there's no other place I would rather be that time of year...

 

I totally agree. The Kaibab is some of the most awesome country on earth!

I just think it is sad the way it has been "managed" to death when it could be so awesome.

So much good habitat deer it is unbelievable. It is a road hunter's dream.

[Red Rabbit]

I hear tales of how unit 9 was once a great unit for nontypical muleys. Now its a great unit for elk. Gotta wonder about the inverse relationship between elk and mule deer populations, How muleys are submissive to whitetail and elk, and the number of deer tags once autorized for 7and 9. Still pretty competitive in 7 with 800 permits for the 2 remaining forky bucks .

 

Doug~RR

[Hunterdan]

Dogman68, You are so right!! I will never forget the archery hunts of the early 1980s. Some of my best hunting memories. I have never understood G&Fs Management plan for the Kiabab.

[coueshunter]

Unfortunately I have only hunted the Kaibab for the past four years so I dont know what it was like years ago. I know this year on the early hunt, there were lots and lots of deer where we hunted. Our hunters killed some tremendous bucks but other groups didnt fare so well...................As to the management of the Kaibab, I think that with the Arizona Deer Association working with the AZGFD, there is going to be some very good/sound biology and management practices implemented in the next few years. I just read the proposed management plan for the Kaibab that dealt with how to manage the forage on the winter range and I am hopeful that things are headed in the right direction. I sincerely believe that AZGFD had not taken as agressive approach on the winter range holding capacity therefore has over harvested the does. I think if we created more food sources on the winter range, clear out some harmful vegetation and manage for trophy potential, the Kaibab will continue to be one of the premium trophy mule deer habitats. I will check with Amanda and see if we can post the proposed management plan for everyone to read and provide input..............Allen Taylor..........

[TwoGuns]

I hear tales of how unit 9 was once a great unit for nontypical muleys. Now its a great unit for elk. Gotta wonder about the inverse relationship between elk and mule deer populations, How muleys are submissive to whitetail and elk, and the number of deer tags once autorized for 7and 9. Still pretty competitive in 7 with 800 permits for the 2 remaining forky bucks .

 

Doug~RR

 

 

Doug, you are so right. Growing up in unit 9, there were so many big bucks, especially out west, and there were no elk in the area. none at all. now, when you go out there you cant find hardly a deer track because it looks like an elk barnyard. That is exactly what the AZGFD has wanted all along though. They keep the north rim for deer and the south for elk, which is all about $$ I think, sellling high dollar elk tags. Which flies in the face of everything they say they believe in, which is that they want to restore things back to the way they were before people interfered. they spend tons of money trying to restore rivers and streams and keep these little spiked ace fish while at the same time saying elk and deer dont compete for resources in unit 9. Falls under their main department commitment to hunters: "Say one thing and do the opposite."

 

Twoguns

[dogman68]

I hear tales of how unit 9 was once a great unit for nontypical muleys. Now its a great unit for elk. Gotta wonder about the inverse relationship between elk and mule deer populations, How muleys are submissive to whitetail and elk, and the number of deer tags once autorized for 7and 9. Still pretty competitive in 7 with 800 permits for the 2 remaining forky bucks .

 

Doug~RR

 

 

Doug, you are so right. Growing up in unit 9, there were so many big bucks, especially out west, and there were no elk in the area. none at all. now, when you go out there you cant find hardly a deer track because it looks like an elk barnyard. That is exactly what the AZGFD has wanted all along though. They keep the north rim for deer and the south for elk, which is all about $$ I think, sellling high dollar elk tags. Which flies in the face of everything they say they believe in, which is that they want to restore things back to the way they were before people interfered. they spend tons of money trying to restore rivers and streams and keep these little spiked ace fish while at the same time saying elk and deer dont compete for resources in unit 9. Falls under their main department commitment to hunters: "Say one thing and do the opposite."

 

Twoguns

[dogman68]

I hear tales of how unit 9 was once a great unit for nontypical muleys. Now its a great unit for elk. Gotta wonder about the inverse relationship between elk and mule deer populations, How muleys are submissive to whitetail and elk, and the number of deer tags once autorized for 7and 9. Still pretty competitive in 7 with 800 permits for the 2 remaining forky bucks .

 

Doug~RR

 

 

Doug, you are so right. Growing up in unit 9, there were so many big bucks, especially out west, and there were no elk in the area. none at all. now, when you go out there you cant find hardly a deer track because it looks like an elk barnyard. That is exactly what the AZGFD has wanted all along though. They keep the north rim for deer and the south for elk, which is all about $$ I think, sellling high dollar elk tags. Which flies in the face of everything they say they believe in, which is that they want to restore things back to the way they were before people interfered. they spend tons of money trying to restore rivers and streams and keep these little spiked ace fish while at the same time saying elk and deer dont compete for

 

 

 

 

 

resources in unit 9. Falls under their main department commitment to hunters: "Say one thing and do the opposite."

 

Twoguns

 

They have had about 30 years to do something about the deer. We've heard the drought story, the too many does story and god knows the too many lions story or excuse.

Anybody that thinks the Kaibab is over browsed has never been there apparently.

I think there are a good number of deer, I'm just saying it has been greatly mismanaged. JMO

They finally found something (elk) that was hard to screw up in spite of themselves.

Whatever happened to wildlife as a whole? We had a good spring and are seeing more fawns so now we can up the permits and give greater hunter opportunity. I fail to see what mule deer have done to deserve the management they get.

[dogman68]

Unfortunately I have only hunted the Kaibab for the past four years so I dont know what it was like years ago. I know this year on the early hunt, there were lots and lots of deer where we hunted. Our hunters killed some tremendous bucks but other groups didnt fare so well...................As to the management of the Kaibab, I think that with the Arizona Deer Association working with the AZGFD, there is going to be some very good/sound biology and management practices implemented in the next few years. I just read the proposed management plan for the Kaibab that dealt with how to manage the forage on the winter range and I am hopeful that things are headed in the right direction. I sincerely believe that AZGFD had not taken as agressive approach on the winter range holding capacity therefore has over harvested the does. I think if we created more food sources on the winter range, clear out some harmful vegetation and manage for trophy potential, the Kaibab will continue to be one of the premium trophy mule deer habitats. I will check with Amanda and see if we can post the proposed management plan for everyone to read and provide input..............Allen Taylor..........

Allen, I thought that was what they were doing all along--------according to them. Why does the ADA have to "help" them.

"You can always tell a college boy; you just can't tell him much"

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Unfortunately I have only hunted the Kaibab for the past four years so I dont know what it was like years ago. I know this year on the early hunt, there were lots and lots of deer where we hunted. Our hunters killed some tremendous bucks but other groups didnt fare so well...................As to the management of the Kaibab, I think that with the Arizona Deer Association working with the AZGFD, there is going to be some very good/sound biology and management practices implemented in the next few years. I just read the proposed management plan for the Kaibab that dealt with how to manage the forage on the winter range and I am hopeful that things are headed in the right direction. I sincerely believe that AZGFD had not taken as agressive approach on the winter range holding capacity therefore has over harvested the does. I think if we created more food sources on the winter range, clear out some harmful vegetation and manage for trophy potential, the Kaibab will continue to be one of the premium trophy mule deer habitats. I will check with Amanda and see if we can post the proposed management plan for everyone to read and provide input..............Allen Taylor..........

Allen, I thought that was what they were doing all along--------according to them. Why does the ADA have to "help" them.

"You can always tell a college boy; you just can't tell him much"

 

 

AMEN!

 

They is educated beyond their intelligence!!!

[mulie hunter]

I agree with Dogman68 North kaibab still has good numbers of deer and offers the greatest chance at harvesting a Mule deer of a lifetime in Az, and I also believe it is being mismanaged. I love to hunt the Kaibab in Sept.. Azp&y don't write off the Kaibab because of what you've heard, it is absolutely some of the most beautiful country in Az. If you hunt ten days up there you will most definetly have shot oppurtunities at quality bucks, not to mention the Turkeys. Guess you know where I'll be in Sept..

[coueshunter]

I wasnt trying to be a "college boy" or anything other than a guy who was passing on what info I have just seen. I am a member of ADA like some of the others on here because I feel that donating some time to a wildlife conservation group that stands up to AZGFD is important. Dogmann, I am unsure what I have done to you to deserve the public snub, maybe if you met me you would know that I am not an educated "non-hunter"..........we probably agree on most everything regarding the Kaibab. I have learned of the unit by hunting it the past 5 years with Duwane Adams. All of what I know about its history and current status is from him. The Kaibab can hold alot more deer than what it currently does, and alot of its holding capacity is dependant on its wintering ability. I am not a biologist, just my opinion............Allen........