Turret Question

[deserttacoma84]

I am looking at having turrets made by Kenton Industries for the Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 vplex scope. My question is how many of you when hunting use the windage turret or do you just hold with a mildot reticle. Whould it best to have both dials made or just stick with an elevation turret similar to the vortex hs-lr?

 

Thanks in advance.

[lancetkenyon]

Here we go.

 

My take on a custom turret....

 

They ONLY work when you are in the exact conditions you get your dope from. If you shoot at 85° at Ben Avery (1563' AMSL) on a 29.95 barometric pressure day and that is where you get your info, then a late November hunt at 6000'AMSL at 40° with a 25.52 barometric pressure will miss at anything over 400 yards. Without a ballistic calculator and going out and actually shooting the rifle, how do you know what your drops are in the first place? A custom turret does not automatically mean you can dial and first round hit at distance. ONLY Practice and knowing your gun can do that. Even then, the wind will get you unless you have a way of actually getting true velocity at several distances, not just where you are at. It takes a lot of practice, and time working up the shot in the field, to make consistent hits.

 

If you plan to limit shots to 300 yards or less, why get a custom turret? Just sight in with a 250 yard zero and hold dead on out to 300 or so. You might have a 4" rise at 150 yards, and a 4" drop at 300 yards, but those will all hit an 8" kill zone with holding right on target.

 

Search "custom turrets" on here and read up on the discussions, it is way easier than re-hashing all of the debates.

 

Again, these are MY opinions. But to answer your actual question, I hold for wind, I do not dial for it. I only dial for elevation. I might have been better to just state that fact. Sorry. Disregard all of the above if you want. Bad day at work and all that makes me grumpy. Plus my wife wants to go shopping instead of a little "alone time" while the kids are at school late today. That is enough to drive you mad!

[lancetkenyon]

Also, you have to know your mil-dot or hashes. A Mil-dot reticle is in Mils, but the Vortex Viper is usually in MOA adjustments, so watch that too.

 

On my Vortex Viper HS 4-16x50, the hashes are not consistent, but knowing them allows me to dial the majority, but hold for elevation at really long range. Mine are at 0, 1.5MOA, 4.5MOA, 7.5MOA, 11.5MOA (top of bar). 900 yards with the .223 means dialing 20.25MOA, and holding on the top of the bar (add 11.5MOA) for a total of 31.75MOA. That is about as far as I can go with the .223. Over that (actually 910 is doable @ 32.5MOA) and I run out of elevation (stops at 21.5MOA up for my set up) and added holds.

[deserttacoma84]

I plan on shooting alot and handloading. Just trying to find out if the windage turret is really necessary or not and if so when hunting how many people actually dial for windage.

[azgutpile]

I dial for wind and elevation.

[rcdinaz]

I always dial for both but if possible would rather set up to limit the impact from the wind since it is often not consistent. I like the idea of the custom turret and a lot of people use them but I have yet to put one on my rifle. You probably don't need a turret for wind if you print out a small chart and tape it to your rifle stock for reference. I personally never even thought about a turret for windage.

 

I would order the tape version before getting a laser etched one. If you havent already learned to use the "shooter" app or similar I would spend my time there before getting a turret. Just learning the app teaches you an awful lot and it is very simple to use in the filed for any and all conditions IMHO.

[deserttacoma84]

I always dial for both but if possible would rather set up to limit the impact from the wind since it is often not consistent. I like the idea of the custom turret and a lot of people use them but I have yet to put one on my rifle. You probably don't need a turret for wind if you print out a small chart and tape it to your rifle stock for reference. I personally never even thought about a turret for windage.

 

I would order the tape version before getting a laser etched one. If you havent already learned to use the "shooter" app or similar I would spend my time there before getting a turret. Just learning the app teaches you an awful lot and it is very simple to use in the filed for any and all conditions IMHO.

I assume the shooter app would be helpful for uncapped turrets? Do most people just unscrew the caps on the scope before getting ready to shoot? The vortex viper is capped but the hs lr and pst all have turrets straight from vortex.

[HuntHarder]

I have Kenton turrets for both wind and elevation. I find them to be plenty accurate enough both in the valley and up north. If you shoot out past 700 yards is when I notice a difference. But even then, it is manageable. In all of my calculations and testing, I find that my bullet drop is 5 inches different at 700. The windage turret from Kenton is awesome. I highly recommend it for quick windage adjustments. It is set for a 10 mile cross wind and you adjust according to the current conditions. We just knocked down 3 bulls all using the Kenton turret and all 3 were smoked. Farthest was 590 yards with an 8 mph crosswind.

[roninflag]

I plan on shooting alot and handloading. Just trying to find out if the windage turret is really necessary or not and if so when hunting how many people actually dial for windage.

no i just use the elevation turret

[roninflag]

what rifle/caliber?

[deserttacoma84]

Winchester m70 270 wsm

[lancetkenyon]

Can you give some specifics on your load?

 

Bullet brand, weight, BC.

Muzzle velocity

 

For a 140gr. .264 Berger VLD with a BC of .612 @ 2950fps

 

Pressure 29.92 @ 80° @ 500 yards drop is 28.8" (Ben Avery elevation)

Pressure 24.42 @ 30° @ 500 yards drop is 39.1" (approximate 7500' AMSL)

 

A 10" difference just going from Phoenix to up north would be a miss on a deer at 500 yards.

 

For a 115gr .257 Berger VLD with a BC of .466 @ 3460fps

 

29.92 @ 80° @ 500 yards drop is 22.5"

24.42 @ 30° @ 500 yards drop is 29.4"

 

A 7" difference at only 500 yards. Would be a wounded deer.

 

For a 140gr. .277 Berger VLD with a BC of .487 @ 3120fps

 

29.92 @ 80° @ 500 yards drop is 30.2"

24.42 @ 30° @ 500 yards drop is 45.2"

 

A 15" difference at only 500 yards. A clean miss on just about any game animal.

 

Bump up the speed to 3320fps (maybe the .270 WSM velocity?):

 

29.92 @ 80° @ 500 yards drop is 25.4"

24.42 @ 30° @ 500 yards drop is 37.3"

 

A 12" difference at only 500 yards. A miss on a deer, or a poorly wounded elk.

 

I think Huntharder shoots a 7LRM with the 180 Berger Hybrids @ 2950 fps @ 65°F & BC of .674 if I remember correctly. According to Shooter (and I have no real world experience with this round or rifle) without knowing his scope mounting height and actual sight in range or conditions:

 

My calculations show for a 1.8" scope height and a 200 yard zero: (these are calculations and not actual data)

 

29.92 @ 80° @ 700 yards drop is 83.8"

24.42 @ 30° @ 700 yards drop is 97.0"

 

Pretty awesome ballistics! But still a miss on game. Huntharder must have different zero range and sight in conditions from what I assumed. And I would sure love to shoot with him someday.

[Coues Sniper]

I dial for wind. I'm more comfortable with the crosshairs on the animal, where I want the bullet to impact, rather than holding off. I feel I can concentrate more on the shot. But it's personal preference really - either will work, with practice.

[STOMP442]

Your scope already has turrets why not use them? I find a standard moa turret works great and you can always change loads or bullets without having to fork out cash for a new turret. Shoot your distances record you moa values at each range and your good to go. Same with windage if you prefer to dial, dial to whatever moa value your ballistics app says to and shoot. I don't like to dial windage, wind conditions change quickly and can vary greatly across canyons I prefer to hold off and with practice you can get to be pretty good about knowing where the bullet is going to hit. Works for me anyways.

[firstcoueswas80]

Lance, those LRM numbers are mine, from my rifle.