AZ- How long before we hit Bottom?

[520HUNT]

So let me get this straight...

Wildlife professionals set the tag limits based on science and unit populations...

Now it is the hunters fault?

Do we blame the elk next????

Science and Unit Polulations? You really believe that? Our Game and fish couldn't give a rats a$$ about science and unit populations, it all about the money now a days, how many hunters can they cram into each unit.

[naturebob]

Here in N. Dakota they got the same problem with deer at an all time low. They have about same amount of tags as AZ. Last year they did away with muley doe tags and in one year they claim the population went up like 27%. They need to do it with whitetails too, but hunters are bitching to much. They want tags. Up here its the hunters that don't get it. Most States have the same problem in the west........BOB!

[Vixen]

We choose which hunt/unit/species to put in for, know the amount of permits issued before hand and we still get mad. I still think Google Earth created this problem.

[johnnie blaze]

I have noticed an increase in knee-jerk complainers who don't have a clue and wont read the real facts or have an agenda that just wont change. Sound familiar?

 

yep...sounds like youve described the GnF bureaucrats to a T

[billrquimby]

After nearly seven decades of hunting in Arizona, several truths have become evident to this old codger: One is that while wildlife management may still be an inexact science, it has come a long way from a century ago when it meant simply catching poachers, killing predators, creating refuges for game to “spill out of,” and protecting female animals and birds. Still another is that our state’s wildlife agency is not our enemy even though its mission is not and should not be to manage wildlife for a minority of trophy hunters. Oops. I almost forgot to mention that hunting and fishing are viewed as anachronisms by an increasingly larger number of voters every year and that we hunters and anglers too often are our own worst enemies. And, finally, we should be careful in what we wish for, because we just might get it. ---- Bill Quimby

[naturebob]

Bill, You got to admit that when getting older shooting a dink isn't as exciting as it was when You were young. I am 58 and just ate a $570 deer tag in Montana and didn't bother Me at all. 10 years ago I would of been pissed. I had 3x3 muleys standing at 60 yards and just smiled and enjoyed the moment. (even tho it was -10). I just enjoy beeing out. But when I do shoot I want them big antlers. And I also have never used a camera or baited. I feel we have enough advantage with big optics and guns. Hope You are enjoying some warm weather.............BOB!

[billrquimby]

Bob: I long ago stopped being excited about shooting a deer, no matter its size, and have no need for more antlers. I was slightly younger than you are now when I stopped measuring the quality of my trophies with tape measures. More importantly, I outgrew my fascination with "trophies" when I realized that if outfitters and governor's permits can't get you a record whatever, there are people who will breed and grow it for you if you have the money. ---- Bill Quimby

[Coach]

I think we can all imagine the meeting where graphs showed that adding more tags during non-rut hunts meant more proceeds for the state and more opportunity for sportsmen.

 

It was an easy sale - "Everybody wins". Problem is, like so many things that look alluring, the bad, ugly side doesn't show up until later. At which time "I told you so" doesn't mean squat.

[twowindy]

Don't forget about the wolves.They are putting a dent in the deer and elk population also.

[Jcubed]

I put this together really fast. I think I got it all in there, give or take a year in some cases(used '64 in a couple of cases instead of '63 when they didn't have hunts). Looking at Harvest Data, at tags issued every 10 years, the only tags that have gone up alot recently appear to be elk, but elk's range and population has also spread alot. Food for thought.

Don't try and bring numbers, math, and logic into the bashing threads...it will get you nowhere quick.

 

But I do appreciate your efforts and thanks for the numbers!

[coues32]

Jcubed,

Do you spend much time in the units I mentioned in the first post? Or just hunt when you draw a tag.

 

Like I said this is not to bash what is happening, trying to find solutions to the decreasing number of game in our state.

 

There are plenty of hunters and non hunters around the Payson area that spend more time in the woods than G&F professionals, that have witnessed a large decrease in mule deer and now elk.

Tags have doubled and tripled is some units.

I don't have a degree , but I have common sense and can figure a few things out.

 

Keep believing the numbers and tell your kids stories about how good it is.

[Jcubed]

Jcubed,

Do you spend much time in the units I mentioned in the first post? Or just hunt when you draw a tag.

 

Like I said this is not to bash what is happening, trying to find solutions to the decreasing number of game in our state.

 

There are plenty of hunters and non hunters around the Payson area that spend more time in the woods than G&F professionals, that have witnessed a large decrease in mule deer and now elk.

Tags have doubled and tripled is some units.

I don't have a degree , but I have common sense and can figure a few things out.

 

Keep believing the numbers and tell your kids stories about how good it is.

Yeah, I have spent a bit of time up there.

 

But you are the expert.

[Couescrazy33]

jcubed, didn't you guys just kill 4 bulls in one of those units. bet u guys hiked Ur butts away from the road though

[Jcubed]

You never know Couescrazy...you just never know

[Zeke-BE]

I have always looked at the stats, but when you compare to hunts and success its all about the money. Its a government agency! What branch of government isn't trying to make more money and not entirely help out the public. If you watch the stats on hunt success compared to tags they always have to many tags. To many tags means more pressure on deer. Plus game and fish helps them out by starting hunts on weeks of full moons to eat and drink at night. With to many tags WE FEEL GOOD about getting drawn, they get paid from the over populated tags in the unit, hoping with the abundant hunters that will help pressure deer into hiding while hoping the impact wont be to bad. Now grant it with to many hunters more deer will be killed, but from harvest deer to cash revenue percentage its a plus for g & f. Compare it to a unit that usually has 800 tags (and lets say they want to make it a quality unit) to 250 tags. Less hunters more success with quality deer trophy's. Well with less pressure more game is able to be harvest to lets say 45% ratio in the new 250 tag unit. That equals 112 harvest deer. Compared to same unit with 800 tags with a normal 18% success rate which equals to 144 harvest deer. But we don't have those units, we only have 800 tag units! Game and fish will supply the demand for people getting drawn and makes us happy, with to many hunters will suppress deer down, with only losing 32 more deer compared to the 250 tag unit, and with keeping the 800 tag unit we (the game and fish) make lot more money. So if this made any since to anyone you can see there is no big push to make quality hunting units. Its about getting everyone a chance while making the most amount of money without completely destroying the unit in a short time period. But that's my opinion.