AZ- How long before we hit Bottom?

[coues32]

With the drastic increase of deer and elk tags in the northern part of the state, the number of animals, let alone the quality (mature) trophy animals are in the crapper.

 

Pre the 900 rifle bull tags in 22 you would pass a 300" class bull in the late hunt, now you are fortunate to take one!

 

6A, shot out

22 same

23 almost there.

Don't hunt any other units often except 32 for deer, but with number of tags given now days I'm sure someone could chime in on units 9,10,27 and others.

 

I always bragged how good the hunting was in AZ, we're on track to have the Quality bull elk that Colorado does.

 

We cannot sustain the number of tags being offered.

 

Guides: Do you think you will book hunters when the state doesn't hold trophy's that AZ has been known for?

 

There will always be a giant somewhere that someone will pay a ridiculous amount of money to put on their wall. But shear numbers of good animals you can guide for without coyote'n from underneath some one are almost gone.

 

Maybe we have a few years left? I would like my kids to have the thrill of seeing a 330" + bull or a 100 " buck.

 

Am I in the minority and most rather have a Opportunity like they claim (AZGF)?

 

Flooded with tags

Trail cameras

1,000 yd shots

30x binos

too many coyotes

dry tanks

 

At least the prices keep going up!

 

 

 

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[hunter72]

I feel the same way its only a short time from the hunting to be really down from past years.they sell more tags than there is even bucks in some units already.

[Jcubed]

Hunt harder.

 

And FYI, you can hunt coyotes year round....literally. So get out there

[coues32]

That's the problem too many good hunters . I do hunt dogs, should have to kill 5 a year to put in for a tag.

[Vixen]

I think we should blame Google Earth.

[Jcubed]

So let me get this straight...

 

Wildlife professionals set the tag limits based on science and unit populations...

 

Now it is the hunters fault?

 

Do we blame the elk next????

[papa]

I am with you on this. I have seen the Coues unit we hunt drop in numbers and quality with 4 hunts going from October to December the deer never get a rest.

I read an article that the game and fish said the kill percentage was right at the same number prior to them changing the hunt dates and number of permits. This BS

I will tell you I have seen the decline in deer numbers each year. there is a family that each year have around 10 tags in there group and nothing was safe (2 TAGS 4 GUNS IN RANGER) if it had horns watch out it would be hanging in a tree. G/F notified nothing has happened yet. This year they spent more time out and found no deer. This particular area has been thinned pretty deep. Until the game and fish can come to their scenes we as sportsmen must practice are own wildlife management and reframe form taking the amount of game some family harvests or the quality of game harvests. I know I will get some repercussion on my statement so be it Its not what I would like to see for me I have killed my share of big Bucks its what I would like to see for my grand sons. Did not put in for this unit mainly so that I did not cross paths with this group.

Tried another unit and shot a nice 4x4 at 722 yards we also saw 4 more that were shooter bucks. Sorry for the ramp.

[coues32]

Don't think there is 900 bulls in 22 N, but they are professionals, Don't question them? The biologist was right on with the count of lions a few years back in our area.

 

If your happy good for you.

[SNEEKEE1]

http://m.tucsonnewsnow.com/tusconnewsnow/db_330662/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=h7djsv1x saw this today n was thinking the same thing you said

[CB1]

100 percent agree w you coues32, and if you talk to the guides, outfitters, and others that spend a lot of time in the field, you will hear the same.

[Coues79]

Tags equal revenue. Its going to be difficult to have decrease in tags due to that revenue. It's just a fact of the matter and g and f won't change it. Period.

 

I personally feel that whitetail will fair the best and more trophy whitetail will exist compared to elk and mule deer. With all of these mega burns that have opened up country for elk, hunters have taken advantage and harvest more animals due to being able to see them.

 

As far as managing wildlife on our part as hunters, it's a good idea but very very very unlikely to happen. Guides and outfitters surely won't do it. Its money in their wallet.

 

All in all, it is what it is. Money talks and the game and fish will not take a cut in revenue by making drastic cuts in tags.

[bonecollector777]

Some units have already hit bottom. . The rest are to follow. When $ is all you care about it doesn't take long to destroy some good areas. 3c is a good example for elk. 10 years ago you expected to see 400" bulls killed there on a consistent basis. Nowadays if someone kills a 350" it's a miracle.

One perfect example of why jcubed is wrong is a conversation I had with a game warden about antelope tags in unit 4b. My friend had that archery tag this year and it was tough finding a buck over 80". We saw a few but not many. Overall we maybe saw 25 bucks over 70" in the unit and we covered a lot of it.

I asked the warden why rifle tags were going up and why archery tags were so low? He answered that they need to raise the rifle tags so guys can be able to go hunting for antelope more than once in their lives. Since so few people hunt archery if there were more archery tags then guys would continue to put in for rifle and get drawn every 25 years. So to "fix" that or "help" that they just raise rifle tags so people can have a chance to hunt them before they die. Doesn't sound to scientific to me. Sounds downright stupid. When rifle tags are practically 100% kill success and you give out 25 tags this year and 30 tags next year it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize all the bucks are gonna be gone. But hey at least guys are getting drawn for their rifle tags they want so bad! If only they would do that with sheep tags. . We could all be drawn!

[hunthard]

These bastards never sease to amaze me with their level of stupidity. Supposed wildlife professionals? Science behind this? How about freaking $dinero?! Does it not take ruining a whole sheep transplant to realize the these prairie fairies don't know what they're doing? Or have tag increases a year after a horrible drought? Or giving out 5 antelope tags in unit 2 and their records say 6 bucks are on the unit? Or having a warden have his friends shoot his bull for him and then sue his employer for a 100k? Or having g&f commisioner tell me, "might just need to settle on this fight with fish & wildlife on this wolf issue because f&w isn't backing down and they have too much money"? I could go on forever....Before the wallow fire there was 75 early unit 1 archery tags, then it jumped to 150. People freaked out...I guess so much that they raised it to 350 the next year lol. 75 to 350 early archery tags in 2 years? Their claim was the ratios were off. How about decrease the cow tags that you just raised as well lol. But they would lose money so no way they're going to do that. 100 more tags were added to the 27 late hunt. I guess we saw a 25% increase in the unit population since last year? No way! Managing a unit where there's mature animals and genetics is just not scientific enough to do. It baffles me why we can't have a hunt where a portion of the tags go to where you can only kill a 5x5 or smaller. That would keep all age classes healthy killing bulls that are on the decline and not letting the younger age class over populate. Same goes for deer. But all they see is $$$, it's a business, and a corrupt one at that.

[Snapshot]

When it comes to Government agencies, revenue, will always trump common sense, and the will of the people.

[johnnie blaze]

Beating a dead horse....but simple math....the units are the same size, the tags keep growing. Whattaya think is gonna happen?