cats and cages

[olmos1010]

Right on bud congrats. Off to a great start. Keep it up.

[Hyperwrx]

A well placed foot hold trap is tough to find by someone not experienced in setting foot holds. Did someone watch you from afar stop your truck and haul stuff in a bucket off the road? Are you walking up soft dirt, snow, or sand where no other traffic has been? The biggest factor that leads to a stolen foothold is a animal caught in a trap thrashing around for someone else to see. Putting your footholds on a drag stops a lot of that as the animal can run, get fouled up. and hunker down. I place all my traps within binocular distance from the road so I don't even need to exit the vehicle to see them. This includes foot holds. There are a few tricks you can do if your trap is hidden from view from the road to let you know from a distance it's been tripped. If you want to know them, just express interest in this thread.

 

I've lost a good number of footholds but when a cage gets stolen I want to pound someone. A trapper running a lot of traps ought to expect a few to get stolen each year. It's just the devils due for playing the game. We live in a society of thieves.

 

You can't fault a veteran trapper (mmtx10) for making a presumption based on the facts presented to him. It would be a trapper who doesn't care about the future of trapping that would sit and say nothing when he feels good solid advice can be offered.

[Presmyk]

I ran them along a phone line rd witch is on the edge of property could see tracks in dirt easy and I let neighbor know bc she has loose dogs, she tells other neighbor there only 3 possible thief. I ran them in am thay evening couple walled their dog (2 sets of shoe tracks and a dog turd that wasn't there that morning. All they had to do is find one and they could figure out the rest were all flat sets with hole witch had the bait in. How do you loose foot holds Hyperwrx with on private land? Same situations? Do you report them to game and fish? Traps have your info on them so if the thief decides to use on public land and a situation pops up have it on record that you had some stolen

[Hyperwrx]

I ran them along a phone line rd witch is on the edge of property could see tracks in dirt easy and I let neighbor know bc she has loose dogs, she tells other neighbor there only 3 possible thief. I ran them in am thay evening couple walled their dog (2 sets of shoe tracks and a dog turd that wasn't there that morning. All they had to do is find one and they could figure out the rest were all flat sets with hole witch had the bait in. How do you loose foot holds Hyperwrx with on private land? Same situations? Do you report them to game and fish? Traps have your info on them so if the thief decides to use on public land and a situation pops up have it on record that you had some stolen

 

Private land does not mean the public can not go on it. Much of the area I trap is private but you'd not know it because there are no signs designating it as anything. Guys are all over it on quads, waking, and trucks. County maps show me where the public/private land is and I stick to those. Careful, some cities like Tucson annex land and it changes ownership status.

 

Even if its private, you can legally trap with without the land owner even knowing if you follow the trapping laws to a T. It's a slippery slope that I don't suggest any trapper walk unless he knows the laws and isn't in an area that can lead to non-target animals caught. In the grand scheme of things, is catching 1 more bobcat worth being on the news and jeopardizing trapping for everyone in the state? That's how we lost footholds on public land in the 90's. Someone caught a yappy dog on a legally set trap and all heck broke loose. In Cali a few years ago a serviceman who traps legally placed a legal trap in an area where some old liberals were feeding the bobcats. Someone found a legally trapped bobcat and all heck broke loose. Many of us sent our own hard earned cash to fight that legal battle. ATA sent cash, NTA sent cash. In the end CA Trapping didn't take a hit with regards to regulations but now we see idiotic groups like Project Coyote spring up from the ashes of unfortunate events like that. Trapping the line of legality (ON THE LEGAL SIDE but on the razors edge) is not to be taken lightly. Veteran trappers do it because they know the snares (no pun intended) and avoid them. New trappers should stay clear of the line of fuzzy interpretation. Play it safe so we and our kids can trap for years to come.

 

AZG&F HabiMap everyone likes to use to see boundary lines is not only not up to date and reliable, but clearly states you can't use it as a legal document in interpreting AZG&F regulations. I had a close call with AZG&F last year based on the Habimap boundary lines. I was allowed 24 hours by the G&F agent in charge of trapping to move my traps or be in violation. Not my fault in my opinion, but the guy worked with me on it and allowed me to remove the traps, which I was grateful for. The agent told me the Habimap is a reference but when it comes to legality, the outlines in the current regs is what counts in a court of law and before the commission.

 

I lost a half a dozen footholds last year to competing trappers. They know bobcat habitat and know where footholds 'ought' to be. It's then basically get out and look around and they find them. Bad part comes with what you mentioned your issue was, they can see a clearly defined trap route and just follow you as you drive along and collect what they can find. Good thing is the AZG&F guy who was or still is in charge of trapping will actively help find lost traps if you can give them a lead. Ron Day, the previous AZG&F biologist until a few years ago, is also a LEO and trapper himself and would stop and or confront an individual a trapper suspects has his traps and try to get them back. He helped me a few times.

 

If a trap is stolen and it has your trapper ID number on it you don't need to fret about it. You don't need to call G&F about it. I have had multiple AZ G&F agents explain this to me and trappers at meetings. Example- say you place a cage or foothold somewhere legally. It gets stolen. You write it off and keep trapping the following months/years. The thief has your foothold and a year later traps Pima Rd and Dynamite Rd. in Upper Scottsdale (M Unit- can't trap there) chasing after the bobcats in the area. He is going to check his trap every few days if not every day. Eventually some old coot is going to be walking his yappy dog in a wash in that area and come upon a bobcat in a cage or foothold and they will call G&F. G&F will go in and look at the trap ID and do some background work. They wont contact you. They will then do a 24-7 stake out on the trap knowing the thief will see a dropped door or have to approach on foot and they'll nab him. At that point they'll match trap with caught illegal trapper and realize you are not at fault. You'll then get a call and you can come down and get your trap if you can show ID. This exact scenario happened but I changed the details a bit. I just keep a document with any trap that was stolen, and the date and location. On your cage traps, etch in to the underside of the pan your initials or trapper ID number. A trapper can pull your tag and replace it with his own and now its his trap. Have some mark you can ID your traps. I do it on my footholds also. I know a trapper who got back his cage traps being sold on a corner in AJ by having such a mark.

 

On your traps ID tag don't put any personal info such as your home address. Just your trapper ID number. I have caught multiple domestic dogs. I sure as heck don't want a pissed dog owner coming to my home if my legally placed trap nabbed their illegally unleashed dog. I put the Mesa AZG&F office address. Let them take the trap there and they can deal with it. I'll get a call to come get my trap and hopefully the idiot who illegally tampered with a legal trap will get in trouble (this will never happen although legally it should).

 

Up on the Navajo once it snows, some of the Native Americans will drive the 2 tracks looking for footprints off the 2 track into the snow. They'll take the traps along down the line. Navajos can trap their land and not pay the $250 license us pale skins have to have. Only 20 permits for us pale skins allowed per year.

 

Take a broom with you and wisk away the tracks in the dirt as you walk back to the truck. Better is to step on rocks or vegetation if its available. Better yet is to set trap, wisk away footprints, and look at the trap with your binoculars from your truck's front seat and see if it's been tripped. Re-lure once a week.

 

for some of you guys with 4-8 traps getting out of your truck to hike and check traps wont get old for a while, but it will in the end. Imagine checking 50-75 sets. Keeping your butt in the drivers seat to check becomes a criteria on where I place a trap. If I can see my steering wheel, I'll place my trap. If I need to cut a branch or two to see it, I will. If I have to use other tricks to see my set behind brush or rocks I will. There are lots of things you can do to know if your trap is sprung, even if you can't actually see the trap itself.

[Presmyk]

Wow I had no idea about the trapping private land with out permission is it as long as it's not posted?

[Hyperwrx]

How would you know it is private land in the first place? A fence? Since when is a barbed wire fence considered anything but a cattle barrier?

 

Your foothold trap has to be on private property, 1/2 mile away from a building, 100 yards off the blacktop, 75 feet off a dirt road, 50 feet off even a trail, not by a camping area, boat dock, park, no sight-exposed bait within in 30 feet of the trap, that included feathers, trap has to be 6 inch jaw spread or less, offset or padded jaws, shock-spring and 2 swivels equipped....................... bla bla bla. The rules are so tight on foothold traps if trappers were checked, chances are they'd get caught for something.

On private land, they have to post it, a certain distance from each sign, the sign has to be a certain dimensions and letter size and a mess of other stuff. Most trappers, me included will just pass up ANY PRIVATE land where the owner at least attempts to post it, this included no a simple trespassing sign. I pass on those as it's better to not ruffle feathers when trappers are walking on thin ice as is. If you did put your cage trap or foothold on private land and the owner of said land found your trap, you'd have no grounds to get it back. If you are trespassing on his private land (no signs posted) and he catches you making a set he tells you to leave you say sorry, and walk away. I have had that happen a few times. "Hey, how was I to know this was your private land?"

 

Last year I found a nice piece of private land with a big thicket nearby (good bobcat habitat and bobcat sign everywhere). Problem was the land was easily within the 1/2 mile occupied building. I found the closest place on the private land to that thicket which was just outside the 1/2 mile radius and put a few dirt hole sets there. Next day I pull up in my truck to see a guy on a horse 25 feet from my set looking at it. I'd caught a nice tom bobcat and it was making a rucus with the cowboy and horse nearby. I don't use drags. I anchor my traps with disposable stakes. Well, if I am legal, I'm legal I think and I get out to dispatch the bobcat and see how this cowboy wants to handle this. I choke it down with him while he stars at me. I looked at him and say, "That was a 30 second rodeo. What did you think of that?" He says, "Is twhat you're doing legal? I thought trappers couldn't use jaw traps no more." I explain to him the changes in the regulations and the stipulations to using a foothold and where the private land ends and the 1/2 mile radius started. I was 50 feet in the clear. He said, "well dang, you keep on doing what you're doing. Good luck." and he rode off. Now that he knew I was there, I just pulled those 2 sets and moved on. One guys talks to another guy and you can't trust nobody these days so that's a problem waiting to happen.

 

A good trapper will move in, harvest the low hanging fruit so to speak, and move out without nobody knowing what he was up to. Draw no undue attention.

[WampusCat]

I also mark my traps in a special way. Once, while on a trip to Kansas I had several footholds stolen that were located near some prime real estate on private land. The truth eluding thief broke multiple laws and ultimately got caught because of the way my traps are marked. When I have 7 dozen marked like that and he somehow had three that were different from his rusted out Dukes the truth was obvious to the law man.

 

I spend a lot of time modifying and tuning every trap I own and go to great lengths to hide them and my presence from scumbags. Tricks like Hyper is talking about have no doubt saved me lots of heartache trying to be CSI.

 

When I had cages stolen in AZ it was always very obvious it was snow birds who thought they were doing right by the poor caught animals. Filed reports with G&F and the sheriff on the odd chance they would be reported, dropped off, or found. Never saw them again.

[WampusCat]

Now that he knew I was there, I just pulled those 2 sets and moved on. One guys talks to another guy and you can't trust nobody these days so that's a problem waiting to happen.

 

A good trapper will move in, harvest the low hanging fruit so to speak, and move out without nobody knowing what he was up to. Draw no undue attention.

This will save a guy more trouble than any other tip, trick, or tactic. Get in, get out, and keep your gear organized so you can move efficiently.

.

[Presmyk]

Ya theif are a dime a dozen these days no matter where you go. Honesty and common sense is not a common thing

[mmtx10]

Do a quick walk around the area when you think your trap has been stolen. Two years ago I had a cage stolen, or so I thought. By looking at the sign in the sand I could tell that the cage was drug a few feet and layed over on it's side. Im assuming it had a fox in it when they found it as I had caught 3 fox in it already. As I was wailing around looking at the sign in the was I saw the cage about 20 feet away in the brush. I think they dumped my catch and just chunked the cage in the brush.

Many of these granola eatting bunny huggers ride thier little bikes every where they go. That or they drive Prius. Either way a lot of times they don't want to or don't have the means to take your cage with them.

Check the brush.

[WampusCat]

Many of these granola eatting bunny huggers ride thier little bikes every where they go. That or they drive Prius. Either way a lot of times they don't want to or don't have the means to take your cage with them.

Thats awesome man. The last cage I had stolen was by snowbirds on bicycles. I dont know how they hauled it off or how the heck they found it. Im guessing it ended up in the nearby body of water.

[Presmyk]

Wow ya would think they would just smash it if they against what we do enough to mess with them in first place. but then again as soon as you think have heard or seen it all another ignorant hippie will pop up and amaze you lol

[Hyperwrx]

Lost one to a guy on horseback last year. He tore off the plastic, opened the door, dumped out everything inside, and walked off with the cage. Horse tracks leading up to the cage. Once had a few guys walk up the trail just after I checked a trap. Those horses were flipping out smelling that bobcat gland lure. One rider said what are you doing, my horse smells something and hates it. I told him I was trapping nearby and left it at that. They were good old boys and didn't have a problem with it.

 

Also last year I pulled up and looked toward a cage trap I had set in a wash. The barbed wire fence just off the road had a giant X with red duct tape on it. Great I thought. I hopped hte fence saw the door was down and jogged over there. In the cage was a big tom bobcat with the door shut. The antis has put red duct tape all over the cage but were afraid of opening the door to let the cat out. They pushed through the wire a sub sandwich LOL and had a pan of water OUTSIDE the cage against the door. Since a bobcat has an anteater tongue and can lap it up 6 inches away? I dispatched that tom and pulled the set. Later I called up the AZ G&F guy in charge of trapping and asked if he had any report of suspected illegal traps in this area. He did and said he was going to check on it that afternoon. I told him it was legally set and the details. I made a big deal about how they tampered with a trap, which is a crime defined in the AZ G&F regulations and he said he'd look into it. AZ G&F will never pursue criminal charges on a civilian messing with a trap even if they admit they did it. They don't want bad publicity. Stealing is another thing, they act like they'd go after someone on, but not tampering with a legally set trap. Even if its illegally set, they can't tamper with it. They are to contact AZ G&F and they handle it. If a land owner finds a trap on his property I imagine he can mess with it, but even that I am not sure.

 

Once had a loonie woman tossing river rocks over a fence to set off a foothold trap I had. Fox had dug around the trap not setting it off but making it visible. I pull up and yell at her as she continued to toss rocks over the fence as I was pulling the set. She tells me I'm a murderer and she is going to tell the police. I pulled the set and went off to check the next trap down the dirt road.

 

The snowbirds come from a different state and think they have a right to force hunters and trappers to adhere to their morals and ethics. My stance is follow the law. If the law allows you to mess with my stuff then go ahead. If it doesn't, then back off and deal with it. If you don't like it, work within the perimeters of the law to fix what you don't like. In the meantime, get the heck out of my way I got money to make!

[Presmyk]

Lol o man what cat don't like a foot long? I have a laminated sign that says do not disturb rabies testing trap sight with bio Hazzard sign and cat tracks on it not sure if any one has seen them yet but haven't had any messed with yet knock on wood

[Hyperwrx]

On your trappers tag all you need to have is your trappers ID number, nothing else. All that extra space can be smartly used by putting in your local G&F office address. Mine also say DO NOT TOUCH AZ GAME & FISH. Who knows if it makes a difference. Can't hurt.

 

I know a fellow trapper who had signs made out of thick plastic and be put them on the top of his cages as a deterrent to thieves. DO NOT TOUCH and the whole 9 yards. Problem was he used the AZG&F quail logo and they took exception to it. He had to pull all his signs.

 

I'd be careful telling the public there is rabies in the area without the authority to actually do that. If the signs can be traced back to you and people get in an uproar you might at the very least get your cages pulled by G&F and you have to explain yourself. That's a hassle and puts you under a magnifying glass by G&F. I'd cut out that part or cover it.