Unit 33 Success!

[billrquimby]

"Even if someone could make that moving offhand shot 1 out of 3 like you say,those odds are way below what I consider an ethical shot." 100%DIYazCOUES: ...........................

 

 

Please read again what I wrote. I said that several countries require hunters to hit a 100-yard target the size of a paper plate offhand at least once out of three shots before they are issued a license. That target is stationary. The moving target is the kill zone of a European moose, which is considerably larger than a paper plate. ........

 

"Ethical hunting is difficult to define because it differs from place to place. In southern Africa, for example, hunting with a rifle anywhere near water or from a blind except for lion or leopard is considered unethical. (Some hard-core ethical African sportsmen frown on ambushing any animal from a blind, and believe even the cats must be tracked to where they are bedded.) Throughout Europe, bears are baited and shot from blinds at night. In some southern U.S. states, running deer with dogs is legal and considered ethical. While baiting any Arizona big game animal is illegal (and therefore unethical), it is the only way bears are hunted in other areas.........

 

Such differences are why I define ethical hunting as actions that are accepted by the majority of hunters in a particular area. .............

 

Your personal standards of ethics are to be admired, but they by no means are shared by the majority of Arizonas hunters, judging by all those multiple shots that are heard all over this state every hunting season............

 

Be that what it may, what I was trying to say is that for those who practice shooting offhand at standing and running targets, such shots can be made consistently. The same can be said for those who assemble the proper equipment and practice a lot so they can shoot 500 to 700 yards or more at live animals. .......

 

Practice at either endeavor can make a shooter capable of making such shots with an acceptable rate of misses. ..........

 

However, just as you are convinced that shooting offhand at standing or running animals at modest ranges is unethical, there are many who believe that until wind drift can be accurately predicted for every shot under every condition, long-range shooting falls into the same category.

 

Bill Quimby

[muledeerarea33?]

I questioned whether to comment or not, but I am! Most people here shoot dove and quail. and at long ranges (past 50 yards) and when they hit, don't hit, or wing them. Not many go to look for blood on a poorly shot dove that they see flying away, the same group doesn't look for deer after a poor shot when they see it running off. If you can't shoot at least 100 yards off hand open sighs, your either lazy, untrained, have an eye illness, or are just plain lazy!!!! I always thought open sights were a pre requisite for hunting. That's what my dad said anyways.

[100%DIYazCOUES]

Hey,maybe I'm just a horrible shot! But I've been around many excellent shooters in my life,including guides,military trained snipers,even a PH from south Africa...and never have I seen ANYBODY demonstrate that they consistantly (9 of 10)could hit an erratically moving target(coues lung and heart sized) offhand at 100 yards. Not even close. I surely can't.

Its a personal decision on what an ethical shot is,I agree bill.but way too many don't seem to know what that even means,and its tough to see happen.if a deer is running from me,ive already blown that stalk and I,for one,have too much respect for the animals to take poor shots like that.

[johnnie blaze]

I have, and will continue, to prefer shooting a bedded deer. Rarely have I ever been afforded the opportunity to shoot at a deer thats worth for a hundred yard running shot. BUT....if its a 120, and he jumps.....I guarantee, that I will try harder to hit that animal twice as diligently as any 500yd bedded shot that ive taken, and succeeded on. Call it unethical if you will, but hunting is a challenge waiting to be conquered. Thats why you practice at long range, and why short range shooting is, at anytime, probable. Conditions constantly change. The only way you can possibly become proficient is by trial and error.

[billrquimby]

This thread got me to thinking just how many animals I have killed while shooting offhand, and whether they were running or not. Its hard to remember the details or everything Ive shot in 66 years of hunting big game animals, but heres what I remember about my first of each of the ten Arizona species. ...................

 

MULE DEER -- I was 12 and killed my first buck with my fourth shot as it ran uphill 150 yards away. Offhand, open sights........................

 

JAVELINA -- I was 12 and it was running through ocotillos straight away from me. One shot, offhand, open sights............

 

COUES WHITETAIL -- I was 19. It was standing about 80 yards below me. One shot, offhand, 2,5X scope..............

.

PRONGHORN -- I was 20 and missed four offhand shots as it stood watching me from 80 yards away. It was running when my fifth shot killed it. Offhand, 4X scope............

 

ELK -- I was 20 and it was standing about 125 yards below me. One shot, offhand, 4X scope. ............

 

BISON -- I was 21. About 30 yards, two shots to put it down. I was sitting with my elbows on my knees. 4X scope .............

 

TURKEY -- I was 21. It was running through grass straight away. 50 yards. with a .270, one shot, offhand, 4X scope. ...........

 

BLACK BEAR -- I was 30. It was in a tree, 40 feet up, I hit it five times with a .357 Mag and once with a .44 Mag. From a rest, revolvers. ..........

 

MOUNTAIN LION -- I was maybe 35. It was fighting dogs. I jumped onto the ledge and shot it at 15 feet. One shot, offhand, open sights. .............

 

DESERT BIGHORN. I was 57. It was running when I hit it twice with two shots at 35 and 45 yards. My left arm was in a cast, so I shot one-handed, 3-9X scope at 3X. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

The point of this post is not to brag, but to say that If I had not fired a shot unless I had a perfect rest, 80% of my Big Ten animals would not now be decorating my home and cabin..........

 

I was fortunate to have grown up in a different era than most of you, and I had lots of practice shooting moving targets offhand as a youngster. Seeing a 9-year-old kid riding a bicycle with a BB gun or .22 rifle on his handlebars in the 1940s did not result in someone calling a cop, and it didn't take long to ride to where I could safely shoot.

............

 

With a BB gun in our backyard, starting at about age 7 or 8, I clobbered literally thousands of scurrying ants and shot at maybe a thousand vanilla wafers that we tossed into the air like skeet targets. (I may have hit 100 at most, but it did teach me to keep a rifle swinging on a moving target.).......

 

I cant tell you how many thirty-cent boxes of .22 ammo I shot at moving creatures on the outskirts of Yuma before I bought my first Arizona hunting license and deer tag ($5 total) at age 12, but it was a considerable number.............

 

Bill Quimby

 

[billrquimby]

Darn! I hate the way everything I post on this site appears in one paragraph, no matter home many times I hit the return (paragraph indent key). Now, all of my quotation marks and apostrophes are missing. What's next? ..............Bill Quimby

[100%DIYazCOUES]

How many animals have you wounded taking shots like that? Simply getting the animal to decorate a house isn't worth the high risks of wounding it taking poor shots,in my humble opinion. I'm certainly not above missing,but I've been fortunate enough to never have missed a shot at a big game animal with a rifle....yet.and I'll do everything in my power to keep it that way.

...and now that I've jinxed myself,wish me luck in late December! Haha

[johnnie blaze]

How many animals have you wounded taking shots like that? Simply getting the animal to decorate a house isn't worth the high risks of wounding it taking poor shots,in my humble opinion. I'm certainly not above missing,but I've been fortunate enough to never have missed a shot at a big game animal with a rifle....yet.and I'll do everything in my power to keep it that way.

...and now that I've jinxed myself,wish me luck in late December! Haha

you shouldnt need luck if your 100% on every shot...with that...good luck!

[100%DIYazCOUES]

I just said,so far,probably with a mixture of luck and taking only good shots,I haven't missed yet.never said I can't miss! It'll happen,I'm only average with a rifle.

[rclouse79]

It is easy to place judgement on others based on your own limitations. I did take a coues last season off hand, but it was in bow range. If it gets further than that I start to get uncomfortable an look for a rest, but I don't fool myself into thinking that somebody else couldn't make the same shot off hand that I need a rest for. It is all about skill and practice time. I only shoot a hand full of rounds out of my hunting rifle each year, and as a result my ego does not take a hit when I say I need a rest for shots over 100 yards.

[billrquimby]

"But I've been around many excellent shooters in my life,including guides,military trained snipers,even a PH from south Africa...and never have I seen ANYBODY demonstrate that they consistantly (9 of 10)could hit an erratically moving target(coues lung and heart sized) offhand at 100 yards. Not even close." ................................Have you considered that military-trained snipers do not practice shooting moving targets offhand? I have hunted with many guides and professional hunters in a dozen countries on six continents. Several were excellent shots, but they grew up hunting dangerous game in countries other than comparatively safe South Africa.................... We can debate the meaning of the word "consistently," but we should be able to agree that, with modern rifles, a little Coues whitetail does not need to be hit in the lungs or heart to kill it, and shots that break bone anywhere except a lower leg will put it down for a follow-up shot............. Incidentally, of the 200 or more big game animals I've taken, I have wounded and lost only three. That is three too many, of course, but I do not hunt to decorate my walls. I hunt because I must and I will hunt until I can't.

....... I will repeat what I said earlier. Anyone who says he has never missed an animal hasn't hunted enough or is lying. To that I will add that the same applies to wounding and losing an animal. For those who have shot only a few standing or bedded animals, it is the former........Bill Quimby

[100%DIYazCOUES]

To each his own I guess.I hunt every chance I get and I don't lie,so I suppose that logic is flawed. Also,hunters wound and lose many coues every year,definitely not just any shot will put them down. If hunters want to take poor, low percentage shots,that's on them.if I'm not very confident I can hit lungs and/or heart,I don't shoot because its not an ethical shot.

But I'm not here to debate anymore,I think its clear enough that someone missing 5,10 times in a row has no business taking those shots,obviously there's something that needs to change if that's happening in order to make a good clean kill shot.I'm surprised there's people on here that don't agree with that.

[billrquimby]

"To each his own I guess.I hunt every chance I get and I don't lie,so I suppose that logic is flawed."................

 

No. You don't lie. It was the former. You just haven't had the opportunity to hunt that much. Even you have admitted that you might miss one day.........By the way, the operative word in "missing 5, 10 times in a row" is "missing."...............Bill Quimby

..........

[100%DIYazCOUES]

Point is ,bill, that someone missing that many times either dosent know their limitations, is having equipment problems and needs to know when to stop,or just dosent care about the ethics of making a clean kill.there's no other explanation.

Its not like I'm new to hunting bill.I've hunted big game for about 12 years so I do have some experience to draw off of. I also do know what its like to miss,just with a bow.and I sure as heck don't start lobbing arrows at running deer until theyre outta sight.I know my limitations,seems a lot of hunters don't and its a shame. That was my whole point with this conversation.