Over the counter archery deer tag gone?

[Lance]

People are always so quick to jump on the wagon and lay down restrictive laws when in the end it just hurts all of us. Everyone on both sides seems to agree, or has said straight out that the % of deer the archers are taking is not hurting the deer numbers in AZ. So why go to a draw if it is not in the entrest of the deer?

 

There are a dozen other less restrictive ways the department could count and keep track of hunters.

 

The only real reason left to go to a draw is to please those who are complaining of over crowding in some areas. And you know that is why because why else would they be thinking of doing the KP first.

So why does the answer always have to go straight to restrictive laws that snowball into other restrictions! I think the pro's of leaving it alone well out weigh the cons and complaints for changing it.

 

True, California loves to hunt archery deer in AZ. But as tough as it may be for some of us to swalow we are not the United State of Arizona. United we stand as Americans, God bless OUR troops and all that remember. Why don't we educate them to hunt somewhere else or spred out a little?

 

We live in a world that is all about the one. "Generation ME." me me me! I want, I want! This kind of aditude and "the land of the free" don't mix it just turns into restrictions that enclude everyone. Have you ever thought a law was stupid? Well it probably is! But, because someone out there thinks it's all about them and cant controll themselves, we all have to pay.

 

It's to bad that we couldn't clear this up with a little hunter education. (restrict ourselves!) It seems that the majority of the ones that want to keep it the way it is are also people who have restricted themselves and don't hunt the crowded areas, or hunt it in a way that works for them. Or not folowing the crowd, therefor not complaining about the crowd.

 

I think hunters in general are a great bunch of people with their feet on the ground! This site is a perfict example of all the great people in the hunting world.

We of all people should realise that restrictions on anything hunting should come as a LAST resort.

 

I don't claim to have all the answers. Maybe this will a turn into a draw in the end. I hope it is not because some people cant camp and hunt right next to eachother without getting along! I don't think that is a good enough reason

Maybe some things have been done or considerd but I garantee not all has been done!!!! I don't belive it's time to jump on the archery draw wagon just yet.

 

Lance

[dave]

My credit card just got hit for $355.00 for the archery deer draw in New Mexico.

 

Just kidding.

[billrquimby]

Mark,

My main reason for supporting a draw for archery deer is to make it possible to cap non-residents that apply. Second to that, there may be some areas that have too many hunters concentrated there. I don’t believe archery deer impacts the resource at all so that would not be my reasoning. I would encourage those that primarily hunt with firearms and want more opportunity to join us in the sport of bowhunting.

Mike,

They started the pie allocation thing about twenty years ago and I am not sure when they decided to only consider the first choice as the demand. They have done it that way for as long as I can remember. Don’t confuse it with the drawing, when your number is drawn they look at your first choice first and if there are no tags left, they look at your second choice. So in the drawing you have both your first and second choices considered when your number is drawn but they only consider your first choice in how they split up the pie between the weapon groups. They are not looking at the unit you put in for, they are looking at the weapon type you chose. I hope that answers your question.

Mr. Quimby,

Good day to you sir. Hope you are doing well.

Bill, if you believe we have less deer now and the drought has not changed that, how would you explain it?

By the way, most seasons are longer now.

IHunt2live,

Some parts of the central and southern units get enormous pressure from hunters, mainly from California. I am glad we have the opportunity we do to archery hunt. Even if it were to go to a draw, it could be done so in such a way that there would be tags for any resident that wanted to archery deer hunt in just about any unit they wanted to. I would never want to give that up either.

To All,

Putting archery deer to the draw can accomplish a couple things. What were my reasons for wanting it? It shouldn’t shorten or change any seasons, it is only accounting for who hunts and giving the Department a direct line to them for collecting hunter surveys. As it is now, the Department may not know who has or had a tag for six months or until all the vendors report. It also would allow to curve some areas that are hit too hard (by crowding not harvest). It should not prevent any resident from archery deer hunting.

 

Dave:

 

"Capping" non-residents? Come on. You''re dreaming. The only way to do this would be to enact something similar to the 10% rule, such as there is for rifle hunts for bighorn, elk, etc., and that would be tough, even for our most conservative wildlife managers to justify with bowhunting's low success rate.

 

I have no idea why (or if) we have fewer deer in Arizona. I do know that permit-only, buck-only hunting on a unit-by-unit basis with multiple seasons has not been a success after nearly 40 years. The horrific declining number of hunting permits over those years is proof of that -- and don't blame a drought. We haven't had a 40-year drought. We've had wet and dry cycles come and go. It's time to try something else.

 

I'll say it again: Anyone who believes our permit numbers are based on actual deer numbers is naive. In units with lots of locked gates and few tags, the only thing I can figure is that parking spaces are computed.

 

As for "there would be tags for any resident who wanted to archery deer hunt in just about any unit he/she wanted to," don't bet the farm on that happening. If there are archery permits issued by a lottery, you better believe tags will be limited in number and issued on a unit-by-unit basis.

 

Ditto for archery permits not shortening or changing seasons. Don't expect a system designed just for resident bowhunters. If permit-only bowhunting comes, the format will be no different from what riflemen are forced to endure.

 

One of the first changes that would come would be ending the ability of archers to also hunt in rifle seasons. You'll have to decide whether you want to hunt your deer with a rifle or a bow. You won't be able to do both -- just as it is now with elk, antelope and javelina.

 

If there is one thing I have learned in my long life is that bureaucracy seeks conformity, with a single set of rules it can apply to everyone.

 

If you want to see your worst nightmare come true, ask to put archery deer hunts on a draw system.

 

Bill Quimby

 

P.S. I am well for an old fart, I guess. Thank you.

[dave]

I am not dreaming Bill, NM already does it. You don’t have to justify something we already do with many other hunts.

 

 

"I have no idea why (or if) we have fewer deer in Arizona. I do know that permit-only, buck-only hunting on a unit-by-unit basis with multiple seasons has not been a success after nearly 40 years. The horrific declining number of hunting permits over those years is proof of that -- and don't blame a drought. We haven't had a 40-year drought. We've had wet and dry cycles come and go. It's time to try something else."

 

 

Here is what we do:

State that there is more deer than there is so we can allot more tags to collect more revenue.

Don't have mandatory reporting so we can make up the difference to meet our financial needs.

Don't have any predator management cause we might have to tell someone where the bear spit in the buckwheat.

Your point about access is the key. The Department spends more time and effort trying to figure out how to gain revenue, when the time would be better spent trying to figure out how to gain access to areas that are locked. Many of those small parcels block access to thousands of acres of forest land.

Not sure how I would set limits for archery tags if they were put to the draw. It is something to think about. Based on how this Commission likes to spit in the face of archers, this may not be the right time. I would not even present the idea to these ones.

There are a lot of creative things that could be done if you have the right Commissioners on board.

I guess the good news is we have one good Commissioner coming on board. I hope this trend follows. If it does, possibly in three years I may attend a Commission meeting again.

 

P.S. Old farts stir up more dust

[billrquimby]

P.S. Old farts stir up more dust

 

 

Only when we've had too many frijoles, then watch out.

[ultramag]

azgfd IS going to change it and you will not like the results. just like everything else they change it will be extreme, just like they did to the central az coues hunts, they now are a circus and almost impossible to draw a dec hunt.

[dave]

"Only when we've had too many frijoles, then watch out."

 

 

You are doing well Bill, just the tought of smelling an ice cube sets me off

[4Falls]

I hope i never have to make that choice, but I may also have to say Rifle first archery 2, 3, 4 and 5. I prefer archery hunting. But I also just enjoy hunting. Heck I'd go hunting with a pocketful of rocks if I had to.

[bowhunter4life]

I'll fourth leaving it alone!!!!! It's works just fine the way it is!!! So all I got to say to these last few comments is amen & Hallelujah!!!!! Preach it Brothers!!!!

 

 

 

I 'll stand also behind you all leave it alone!!!!!!!!