Guides-and using them

[BeardownAZ]

This is just a straight honest question. Why do people use guides? And this applies to any and all types of hunts, both trophy(whatever that is) and regular hunts, any animal. Is success that important to have someone else make sure you find a animal of certain criteria in order to be happy, or what, what is it?? If Im an out of stater and know nothing about an area, that makes sense, But what about AZ residents who use them for AZ hunts? Im sure Ill get flamed big time on this but its not a bash on either guides or the ones who hire them. Really its not. Im just curious. If someone offers me $5000 or more to point them to an animal and have them shoot it, of course id take it!! I understand that part but my question is more for those who hire them. If your from Az and you draw a tag, cant you go spend that same amount of money on optics and gas scouting said area and be successful on your own? Or is there something different in a hunt with hiring a guide? Again, not a dig just a curious question. I have eaten tag soup before and its not fun but its not everything either nor did it make my hunt less memorable or fun. I hear some much talk on here about needing to be succesful as its once in alifetime, this and that. Is that what drives one to hire a guide? I know to each there own, just was wondering for those who use them, have used them, why?

[mattys281]

I think its probably a question more than one have thought about. I, personally, have no interest in ever hiring one, but how others spend their money is their own business. Id rather take responsibility for my own failures and keep all the glory to myself for my successes.

[Edge]

For the purpose of conversation, lets separate guides from outfitters; something AZGFD can't seem to do.

 

I've often asked myself the same question, 'Beardown,' But I can easily answer my own question. Were I drawn for bighorn, I think I might hire one. I have been spending countless hours in bighorn country last several months, pursuing lion , I see the sheep tracks, scat but not them.

 

Also if I had a buttload of dough and anxious for a lion, I'd hire a friend and neighbor who's a houndsman.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I have been on both sides of this coin... and after being forced to go on guided/outfitted hunts (due to state or country laws) I can tell you that it is a BLAST!! There is sooo much less stress... no logistics to worry about.... No, "What are we gunna do tomorrow now that our Plan A is shot to He!!"... no drama.... Just focus on what you are there for: The Hunt! It is something I would pay for every year if I had the time or the money! It is similar to me paying someone to work on my cars so that I can Drive Them! Many can't afford the time off work or away from their businesses to have a good enough grasp on the unit and the animals in it to have a really good quality hunt.... for many it is financially less damaging to hire than to take that time away from day to day life... and lets face it, the tags come way to far and few between to not Maximize each and every opportunity. Soooo many guys turn it into something it is not.... and unless you have tried it (and had a good experience) you really are in no position to judge it....I have been blessed to go on some AMAZING guided/outfitted hunts and I try to be the guide that I would want to guide me. I guide because I love hunting, finding, and putting my hands on BIG critters it is also why I would hire at the drop at a hat!! There will always be haters but the Truth is... KNOWING is half the battle... because "thinking" is really what spawns the haters.... IMHO.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

Furthermore.... We each have a different definition of what our outdoor and hunting experiences should be... So what work for me is likely not gunna work for you. Our judgmental points of view makes us an easy mark for the Anti's... It allows new laws like the No Bait law, less tags for archery hunters, and some future "rule changes" to get passed because we love to throw stones in this glass house... and that is a Fact that MOST of us are guilty of.... Just sayin'....

[azslim]

the folks I have guided have been from out of state, trying(paying) for tags for a while and wanted to improve their chances of getting something on the ground

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

One more thing... What we make ($$$) as guides is really not that great when you think what we put into it... Each scouting day (lots of these) and 7 days per hunter... Example:

 

(This is for me and I know the guys work with invest like I do)

 

Optics and tripods=$10K (daily use)

Truck(s)/trailers/rangers/tents/etc.= $15k-$60K (daily Use) {For Str8Shot}

Video Cameras/Still cameras/Trail Cameras= $3K-$10K

Food/drinks/supplies = $50-$100 (perday)

Fuel/Tires/Wear & Tear on all above = $50-$150 (perday and sometimes a LOT more LOL)

 

WE do it cuz we love it... but it ain't that glamorous and you ain't getting rich doing it either... LOL.

 

Cheers!

[BeardownAZ]

No judgement here, just asking why people use them. I highly doubt I will ever use one. I feel the same way mattys281 feels. For me to spend that coin on one hunt, I cant justify it. But thats me. Not saying that for eveyone else. The other side of it is, I know alot of people who do judge those who dont kill only trophys or spend the money on guides and such. I agree, if someone wants to spend the money, have it. Its your money, your right. I spend alot on things others wouldnt so again, to each there own.

[MULEPACKHUNTER]

I think in my opinion only, it boils down to what makes you happy. I would imagine hunting with an outfit would be alot of fun with like minded guys and gals hanging out in the hills. I agree going out of state it would be helpful. Myself I would use outfits in certain situations but most of the time I would just DIY.

I enjoy the research and scouting and knowing I did the work. There was a recent video of a hunt for a monster and it was all the outfitters guys like 6 of them doing all the work and then the hunter shows up with cash and spends 2 days and bam trophy. That is not appealing to me but I can certainly see where it would be to some. I would rather take my cash and spend more time in the hills. Some people just want the reward and not the work. Maybe they just never got both the work and reward to realize thats even better. I like the idea of going out of state and being packed into a camp then hunting on my own from there, I think that would be a way I would use outfitters.

I too wish azgf would allow outfitters to work outside of guides. I would pack guys into camps of their choice from time to time for little cash but thats a cost of 1500. a year plus forest fees just for me to do that.

To me hunting is just that, hunt and find the game and take it. Not call up a crew of guys and have them do it for me.

I see the validity in its a ounce in a lifetime sheep tag you better get a guide, well I say you should have spent the last 30 years scouting while waiting for that tag if you really wanted to "hunt" sheep.

Like I said whatever makes you happy but I can tell you from being new at this, when I scout and find good areas and animals I am on top of the world.

[BeardownAZ]

I think in my opinion only, it boils down to what makes you happy. I would imagine hunting with an outfit would be alot of fun with like minded guys and gals hanging out in the hills. I agree going out of state it would be helpful. Myself I would use outfits in certain situations but most of the time I would just DIY.

I enjoy the research and scouting and knowing I did the work. There was a recent video of a hunt for a monster and it was all the outfitters guys like 6 of them doing all the work and then the hunter shows up with cash and spends 2 days and bam trophy. That is not appealing to me but I can certainly see where it would be to some. I would rather take my cash and spend more time in the hills. Some people just want the reward and not the work. Maybe they just never got both the work and reward to realize thats even better. I like the idea of going out of state and being packed into a camp then hunting on my own from there, I think that would be a way I would use outfitters.

I too wish azgf would allow outfitters to work outside of guides. I would pack guys into camps of their choice from time to time for little cash but thats a cost of 1500. a year plus forest fees just for me to do that.

To me hunting is just that, hunt and find the game and take it. Not call up a crew of guys and have them do it for me.

I see the validity in its a ounce in a lifetime sheep tag you better get a guide, well I say you should have spent the last 30 years scouting while waiting for that tag if you really wanted to "hunt" sheep.

Like I said whatever makes you happy but I can tell you from being new at this, when I scout and find good areas and animals I am on top of the world.

This is exactly me. The reward comes from me doing the work and then getting the animal. Someone else doing everything for me, then me walking up and just shooting it, does not appeal to me in the least. I hunt cause I like to hunt. Not just kill. But if someone is so inclined to do so, thats ok. Just not my cup of tea.

[Coues 'n' Sheep]

I've been on drop hunts and they also can be rewarding... however, I can tell you they are not as fun as a guided hunt because you might find it hard to get moved if the hunting in that location sucks that year... or if moving isn't an option. On a guide/outfitted hunt you get all that... and I have wasted money on drop hunts that I regret... but that is again just me.

[rossislider]

I have been on both sides of this coin... and after being forced to go on guided/outfitted hunts (due to state or country laws) I can tell you that it is a BLAST!! There is sooo much less stress... no logistics to worry about.... No, "What are we gunna do tomorrow now that our Plan A is shot to He!!"... no drama.... Just focus on what you are there for: The Hunt! It is something I would pay for every year if I had the time or the money! It is similar to me paying someone to work on my cars so that I can Drive Them! Many can't afford the time off work or away from their businesses to have a good enough grasp on the unit and the animals in it to have a really good quality hunt.... for many it is financially less damaging to hire than to take that time away from day to day life... and lets face it, the tags come way to far and few between to not Maximize each and every opportunity. Soooo many guys turn it into something it is not.... and unless you have tried it (and had a good experience) you really are in no position to judge it....I have been blessed to go on some AMAZING guided/outfitted hunts and I try to be the guide that I would want to guide me. I guide because I love hunting, finding, and putting my hands on BIG critters it is also why I would hire at the drop at a hat!! There will always be haters but the Truth is... KNOWING is half the battle... because "thinking" is really what spawns the haters.... IMHO.

I've definitely had my disagreement with Couse 'n' Sheep about certain guides in the past, but agree with him on this one. I consider myself an average working class Joe and don't have the type of money it would take to spend on big name guides on a regular basis. However, I have had the opportunity to hire small outfitter/guides on two different occasions. Both time were instances where I was attempting to hunt a type of game that was new to me. I don't come from a hunting family. We aren't all fortunate enough to have dads that raised us in the mountains hunting, and who could teach us from their many years of experience. Most of what I know has been self taught or learned from friends. I hired the guides because I considered these individual to be someone with a great deal of knowledge and experience. I saw them as tutors who could teach me to hunt the given species so that I would feel comfortable doing it on my own in the future, and eventually pass that information on to my children. I considered both of these hunts to have been extremely successful, and yet I didn't harvest an animal on either hunt.

 

I'm not so hypocritical that I wouldn't be willing to admit that there are circumstances where I might consider hiring a guide in the future should I have the opportunity for that "once in a lifetime" hunt. This said, I don't agree with all of the tactics and methods used by a few guides/outfitters, and would never hunt with them. But as long as they are ethical and within the law, I will support their right to do what they do.

[Guest 300ultramag.]

_{guides are for fishing poles}

[bonecollector]

My recent elk hunt, I hired an outfitter/guide. For me it was a no brainer due to my work schedule, I work 7 days a week most every week. I had no time to scout and no time to learn the unit well enough to go out there on my own. It was my first early elk tag and only my 2nd elk tag ever so my knowledge of elk habits is very slim, another reason why I chose a guide. This hunt was by far the most fun I have had on a hunt in a long time. Even if I wouldn't have tagged out, I learned so much about hunting elk it would have been worth it to me. It helps having guys in camp that have fun while at the same time take finding animals serious. If I added up all the gas money and food and everything that goes into scouting for a hunt plus the time being away from my wife and 2 daughters, what I paid for my hunt is totally worth it to me. Im really not sure how these guys make a living doing what they do. With all the wear and tear on their vehicles and equipment, gas scouting, and everything else. I'm not sure how many or if any guides take their clients on scouting trips before the hunt but mine did, we spent a weekend in the unit. It never felt like I was there just to shoot an animal like some people say guided hunts are. So I guess what I am saying is, I would do it all again given the opportunity. I am sure there are some bad outfitters/guides out there that give others bad names but not all guides/outfitters are bad.

 

[Str8Shot]

I am trying to figure out how Coues 'n' Sheep spends 15 - 60k Daily on trucks, OHV, and tents ... Still I can see why many use guides especially those from out of state that often spend many years waiting to draw... I am sure if they put aside $500 every year they do not draw , by the time they do draw a tag the cost is nothing to them. I would also say that we often use guide/outfitter as a blanket statement and though the term is used most of us never clump every guide/outfitter into the mix... even the good ones know of the bad that tend to bring up soured conversations.

 

I reside in the camp of Mulepackhunter as to wanting to do it all myself... I have been on more hunts without a tag helping family and friends just to be out there and learn, The thing with Mother nature is she can teach you something new every time you go out... I was and still am against baiting and not because I am worried about disease ( that is secondary). I am against anything that tries to alter the animals behavior and habits to the hunters benefit .. I am not against guides/outfitter as a whole, but those guides that seek to maximize their profits in our passion of hunting by working with property owners to shut the rest of us out of public lands are IMO disrespecting and doing a disservice to all of us... It does happen and seems to be happening more in the last few years...