Tines Report post Posted March 5, 2007 Guess I'll hop on my soap box. About that youtube clip. Mind you, this is coming from someone who shoots an AR. I can't believe what I just saw. You know what that "proved" to me? A bow with a shorter brace height (a full inch I might add) just shot faster. If the guys down at PSE just figured that out, they're in for another disappointing season. I have several good friends down there and it's saddening that they may be grouped in with an advertisement like that. I'm positive they wouldn't agree with what took place. Not only did it show that they're losing in some way or another to their competition, it showed they're illiterate! Sorry, even the little things rub me the wrong way! Like I said, I shoot an AR and love the bow. I'd love to try out the Xforce. But if joe dirt down the road can hop on the 'ol magic box and prove them wrong then why couldn't an established compound bow manufacturer do the same? I don't know why this false advertising bothers me so much when it happens all of the time. I guess being honest doesn't pay the bills sometimes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mulie hunter Report post Posted March 5, 2007 Guess I'll hop on my soap box. About that youtube clip. Mind you, this is coming from someone who shoots an AR. I can't believe what I just saw. You know what that "proved" to me? A bow with a shorter brace height (a full inch I might add) just shot faster. If the guys down at PSE just figured that out, they're in for another disappointing season. I have several good friends down there and it's saddening that they may be grouped in with an advertisement like that. I'm positive they wouldn't agree with what took place. Not only did it show that they're losing in some way or another to their competition, it showed they're illiterate! Sorry, even the little things rub me the wrong way! Like I said, I shoot an AR and love the bow. I'd love to try out the Xforce. But if joe dirt down the road can hop on the 'ol magic box and prove them wrong then why couldn't an established compound bow manufacturer do the same? I don't know why this false advertising bothers me so much when it happens all of the time. I guess being honest doesn't pay the bills sometimes. The video shows Pse makes a superior bow to Matthews or any other! I haven't shot the Xforce but would love too, 350 fps. By the way pse has been manufacturing bows with short brace heights for years. I shot the Pse carrera with a 6 inch brace height(320fps) before switching to AR last year. Pse is not losing but has always been a driving force in the industry. Now as coues n sheep stated about his promo, hopefully Pse will send my $0.01. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted March 5, 2007 PSE has made about a hundred different short brace height models over the years. Thg G-force was under 6" as I recall, my Mach 12 is supposed to be 6 3/4", but has never been better than 6 1/2", & this one is 6". If you're one of those guys who is a human shooting machine & always nails perfect form & a smooth release, knock yourself out, but I'll personally be switching to something w/ a little more forgivness built into the brace height. Were I to buy another PSE, it would definetely be a Diablo w/ the NRG Hybrid cams. From what I've seen, I think its the best compromise of speed (up to 310), generous brace heigth (over 8") and compact geometry (33" ax-to-ax). It's a parallel limb design & one of the lighter bare bows on the market right now. Good solid set-up w/ a suggested retail of around $600. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted March 5, 2007 Shooting a 3" group at 110 yards.......PRICELESS! Anyhow, I would like to shoot that new Hoyt...... I'd be really impressed if it is as sweet as Matty says..... ...... I'll be checkin' one out one of these days.......soon. My buddies are always on me to keep tryin' the hoyt bows out..... they just don't feel "perfect" to me.... I have shot that Drenalin from Mathews.... light weight, but jumpy.....and probably not as forgiving as my Switchback..... You know where I am going with this right....... Mathews Switchback XT........ Shoot it.... you'll buy it. It is really that good.... it is even better than my Switchback. Ya know..... as much as I promo for Mathews on this site....... do you think they would send me $.01 of endorcement money????? Heck No!!!! First of all, you're my undisputed new hero if you can hold 3" at 100 yards with any bow! I'm good for a 10" group at sixty when the wind is calm, the sun's right, no birds are flying and all the stars are aligned properly, but on a lesser day.... we don't need to discuss that. That XT is an awesome bow, but after I shot it, I thought, "That was nice" & then took my PSE home w/ no regrets. After shooting the Vectrix, I'm having trouble deciding whether I want the 33" incher or the XL at 36". Being one who preaches shootability, I'll likely go w/ the longer one, as it also has a 1/2" more brace height and you only lose 1 or 2 fps. This bow may not be the greatest thing since fiber-optic sights, but to me it felt really good and sounded even better. The whole way home I played the "if I sell this on ebay & put that up too, & maybe take a couple bucks out of the savings acount... I haven't gave blood in a while.... Maybe I can get one before my April hog hunt" game. Again, that's just my .02 worth. Go some place where you can shoot it head to head against the XT. Bottom line, I still think that if you put a bunch of the "top line" bows in a shooting machine, they'd all be pretty close on speed & accuracy. You just need to find something that inspires your confidence, whether it's because it's popular & cool, because it shoots great, or because you feel like you bested the rest of us by paying half as much. I really don't think you could lose buying a mid to top range bow from anybody. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mulie hunter Report post Posted March 5, 2007 mattys281 I agree with you on the short brace height, you gotta have great form on every shot or you pay for it! I loved the Carrera but when I switched to the AR ,W/longer brace height, my shooting improved,it is a Much more forgiving bow. Now shooting a 3" group @110 yards I know coues 'n' sheep was smokin' something, cause you can only do that with a Pse bow! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tines Report post Posted March 5, 2007 The video shows Pse makes a superior bow to Matthews or any other! I haven't shot the Xforce but would love too, 350 fps. By the way pse has been manufacturing bows with short brace heights for years. I shot the Pse carrera with a 6 inch brace height(320fps) before switching to AR last year. Pse is not losing but has always been a driving force in the industry. Now as coues n sheep stated about his promo, hopefully Pse will send my $0.01. I'm not here to say that PSE makes a terrible product. Like I said, I shoot AR and happen to really like the bow. I just don't like misleading statements and advertising. Those who understand the basics of archery can see that although they have two bows that look similar (cosmetically), they aren't even close to being the same. There's several reasons your AR shoots better than your old Carerra. It's probably a combination of better shooting habits made over the years, less aggressive cam, more ergonomically correct grip, MORE brace height, better manufacturing coupled with better materials, less hand shock.....etc. I could go on forever but I won't. There's a reason PSE (and many other manufacturers for that matter) went away from designing bows with shorter brace height. That reason is because of 2 words- parallel limbs. PSE has now designed a bow with parallel limbs and a shorter brace height; something tried but never much of a success. I give them props for making what appears to be a superior product in it's OWN class. Some people place all high end bows in the same class; a common mistake. The other reason they went away from it was because of the obvious, they're not as forgiving. Some may think I'm negative but I'm really not. I'm just irritated that the industry has turned the compound bow into "rocket science". It's not. It's still a very, very simple machine. Last time I checked, a corvette doesn't off-road very well. But if all I'm looking for is speed, it's sure faster than a crew-cab. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted March 6, 2007 mattys281 I agree with you on the short brace height, you gotta have great form on every shot or you pay for it! I loved the Carrera but when I switched to the AR ,W/longer brace height, my shooting improved,it is a Much more forgiving bow. Now shooting a 3" group @110 yards I know coues 'n' sheep was smokin' something, cause you can only do that with a Pse bow! Hey now!!!! Don't hate on my bow...... actually I shot that group, with a witness, using my Q2 XL.... I can't shoot'em as tight with my Switchback..... about the size of an orange or a grape fruit at those ranges. That ol' Q2 XL is about 276 fps, but very forgiving!! I love that bow...... use her as a back up to the ol' Switchback now. I really enjoyed shooting my Switchback until I shot the XT... ... I'd kinda like to have one, but the two I have are way to good to go off and buy another..... When the weather warms a bit and my shootin' buddies & I start getting tuned up and then I can hang with anybody that shoots hunting sites.... .... I have too...... the guys I shoot with are brutal!!! They would verbally abuse me to Death!!!! And Matty.... Thanks man....... It makes me all warm inside too know that I am the Hero of anyone at all!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave Report post Posted March 6, 2007 Wow, so much to try to believe at once, Coues 'n' Sheep 3" groups at 100 yards, Xforce 350 fps IBO. Fill up my glass, I don't want to be 1/2 empty. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
COOSEFAN Report post Posted March 6, 2007 Wow, so much to try to believe at once, Coues 'n' Sheep 3" groups at 100 yards, Xforce 350 fps IBO. Fill up my glass, I don't want to be 1/2 empty. The man is shooting a Matthews.........I believe him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TREESTANDMAN Report post Posted March 6, 2007 I would also recommend going out, shooting all the best rated bows and pick the one that feels right. All the top performance bows out there have similar metrics and perform practically the same depending on the shooters ablities. I shot the bowtech tribute, Hoyt trykon, Mathews Switchback XT and several others and chose the mathews mainly because It just felt right in my hands and wow, no handshock whatsoever! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HUNTMUP Report post Posted March 6, 2007 I have been a long time follower of the forum and feel like I know most you even though we have never met. I have been content to follow the forums and hear of all the exciting hunts and the great pictures however, I could not resist on adding my comments to this debate. I agree with most of you who suggested to trying out as many bows as you can before settling on any single choice. It is very important to select a bow that not only fits properly but one that the user truly likes and feels confident with as well. I have shot many different brands of bows PSE, Hoyt and Mathews to name a few and I have been successful with them all both in the field and on the 3-D course and you most likely will be pleased with any of the offerings from the major brands. As far as the 3" groups at 110 yards.. It is possible as I have seen it done. One lesson I have always tried to remember is "Never brag about your equipment or your abilities, one is readily apparent and the other soon will be.." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewp45 Report post Posted March 6, 2007 Thanks for all of the comments. I am going up to Phoenix to shoot all the bows I can to find the right one for me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted March 6, 2007 Good Luck Matt! You will be far happier with your new bow by making that trip and shooting them all. It truely make no difference which one we all like...... You will find ONE that works for you....... be sure to let us know what it is!! BTW.... I was "Bragging" on my equipment..... ....sorry... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Huntn coues Report post Posted March 6, 2007 Wow, so much to try to believe at once, Coues 'n' Sheep 3" groups at 100 yards, Xforce 350 fps IBO. Fill up my glass, I don't want to be 1/2 empty. The man is shooting a Matthews.........I believe him Yep Coosefan you are correct. - no matter how hard I bash good ol BINO (coues n sheep) and how much I rip on his Crappy ol Matthews --I am very unhappy to say it but he can shoot those groups. Gino-- send my five bucks to me or else!!!! OH yeah-- The TRUTH baby. The real deal in bows!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coues 'n' Sheep Report post Posted March 6, 2007 Wow, so much to try to believe at once, Coues 'n' Sheep 3" groups at 100 yards, Xforce 350 fps IBO. Fill up my glass, I don't want to be 1/2 empty. The man is shooting a Matthews.........I believe him Yep Coosefan you are correct. - no matter how hard I bash good ol BINO (coues n sheep) and how much I rip on his Crappy ol Matthews --I am very unhappy to say it but he can shoot those groups. Gino-- send my five bucks to me or else!!!! OH yeah-- The TRUTH baby. The real deal in bows!!!! Do you take checks, Troy????? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
