Help with .270 Reload

[loco4coues]

24" barrel, weatherby vanguard S1.

I'm .010 off the lands.

[.270]

Those are some really weak velocities. Id be perplexed too. Another bit of advice. Forget about "energy". All energy, knockdown, lbs/ft, etc are is numbers on a piece of paper. The type of bullet, where you hit it, bullet diameter, etc have more to do with the reaction of the animal than energy. If energy meant anything then you wouldn't be able to kill anything with a bow. A full metal jacket has the same energy as a any like weight bullet with the same velocity. Is a fmj gonna hit as hard as a softpoint? Nope. Its gonna zip on thru. Put your effort into accuracy with a bullet designed for what you want to do. Lbs/ft deals with specific laws of physics. A deer or elk don't. If you're shooting tanks or buildings or other types of armor, it matters. They don't give unless you hit em hard enough. Animals ain't like that. Lark.

[cactusjack]

Id try a different primer.

[Zeke-BE]

Id try a different primer.

That was my idea. Can changing a primer change the speed up to 1-200 fps faster?

[lancetkenyon]

With the last year ammo scare I was forced to reload. So Im pretty new to it. But Im shooting the Nosler 140 grain accurbond. I've been also practicing lot more with Long Range shooting and hitting 500-650 yards. I know 500 yards is not long range to some but Im getting there. But I want a load that when I hit a deer at 600-700 yards I will at least have over a 1000 lbs of energy when I hit it at that distance. To get that lbs I need to be shooting 2950-3000 fps. I finally maxed out the load that says in the Nosler book and shot them today. Here are my results

 

RL15, 47grain, Fed 210 primer= 2,690 fps

IMR 4350, 53.5, Fed 210 primer= 2,525 fps

RL19, 55g, Fed 210 primer= 2,678 fps

 

This is no where near 3,000 fps in what the Nosler book is claiming. What im I doing wrong or need to change? Im shooting a Tika .270 24" barrel and I believe 1-10" twist. Go easy on me Im still learing in the Reload world! Also its not my goal in life to shoot a deer at 700 yards I just want to make sure that Im capable of a go shot placement and knock down power if I have to. I have a mule deer hunt in Nov. in 36B

According to my Nosler book, your loads are a far cry from published velocities. You are using their preferred primers (Fed 210 LR), but you never mentioned case brand/head stamp. They loaded with Winchester cases. If you use a different case, it could have different capacity, causing either lower pressure/lower velocity, or high pressure/higher velocities.

 

47.0gr. RL15 (published max) should net you about 2832fps.

53.5gr. IMR4350 is over published max load of 52.5 which should net you about 2858fps, so your load should be even hotter.

55.0gr. RL19 (published max) should net you about 3003fps.

 

These are all book loads, so take them for what they are worth as far as "Max". Books are usually very safe on what they will publish as a max load for liability reasons.

[Mike S]

 

Id try a different primer.

That was my idea. Can changing a primer change the speed up to 1-200 fps faster?

 

Doubtful in my opinion...

[cactusjack]

Primers might not be the culprit, however id try some from a different lot to rule them out.

[Zeke-BE]

 

With the last year ammo scare I was forced to reload. So Im pretty new to it. But Im shooting the Nosler 140 grain accurbond. I've been also practicing lot more with Long Range shooting and hitting 500-650 yards. I know 500 yards is not long range to some but Im getting there. But I want a load that when I hit a deer at 600-700 yards I will at least have over a 1000 lbs of energy when I hit it at that distance. To get that lbs I need to be shooting 2950-3000 fps. I finally maxed out the load that says in the Nosler book and shot them today. Here are my results RL15, 47grain, Fed 210 primer= 2,690 fpsIMR 4350, 53.5, Fed 210 primer= 2,525 fpsRL19, 55g, Fed 210 primer= 2,678 fps This is no where near 3,000 fps in what the Nosler book is claiming. What im I doing wrong or need to change? Im shooting a Tika .270 24" barrel and I believe 1-10" twist. Go easy on me Im still learing in the Reload world! Also its not my goal in life to shoot a deer at 700 yards I just want to make sure that Im capable of a go shot placement and knock down power if I have to. I have a mule deer hunt in Nov. in 36B

According to my Nosler book, your loads are a far cry from published velocities. You are using their preferred primers (Fed 210 LR), but you never mentioned case brand/head stamp. They loaded with Winchester cases. If you use a different case, it could have different capacity, causing either lower pressure/lower velocity, or high pressure/higher velocities.47.0gr. RL15 (published max) should net you about 2832fps.53.5gr. IMR4350 is over published max load of 52.5 which should net you about 2858fps, so your load should be even hotter.55.0gr. RL19 (published max) should net you about 3003fps.These are all book loads, so take them for what they are worth as far as "Max". Books are usually very safe on what they will publish as a max load for liability reasons.

 

 

My head case/ stamp which I believe you are talking about the brass, is Nosler ( I'm still new to reloading). I have it set at 3.330 which barley fits in my Tika magazine, which slightly pushes back as I chamber it . But I do apologize my buddy wrote down IMR 4350. It was loaded H4831c. But I don't remember if we loaded it to the max at the H4831 or loaded it at the IMR. If we did load it at the max for the IMR I would be almost 4 grains short for the H4831. I'll take one apart and weigh it. But my other powders are according to the Nosler Book.

[lancetkenyon]

From the Nosler book:

 

IMR4831 max load is 53.5 @ 2910fps

H4831(SC) max load is 58.0 @ 3000fps.

 

For my .270, I ran case weights to see variance in brass content, meaning more or less capacity.

All of these were average for at least 10 cases.

Hornady=182.0

Nosler=184.3

Frontier=188.0

Winchester=190.0

Remington=196.0

Federal=202.5

 

That is 5.7 gr. difference between Nosler and Winchester in brass content, meaning slightly more case capacity for the Nosler.

 

With that being said, case capacity is a little higher in the Nosler vs. the Winchester, so that should add up to less pressure, meaning less velocity. Try weighing your cases, then filling with water to see how much water capacity they have. Also, if you have other brands of brass, or can borrow some, see what those differences are as well.

[STOMP442]

I would try some H4350 and a high BC bullet like the berger 130gr classic hunter. With a BC of .497 it has a BC even higher than the 140vld offering and able to be launched at even higher velocities. I have a couple savages chambered in .270 with 22" barrels and 53 grains of H4350 gives me right at 3000 fps and half inch or better accuracy in both rifles. At 3000 fps you can hold 1000 ft lbs of energy out to 650-800 yards depending on your elevation.

[Mike S]

Primers might not be the culprit, however id try some from a different lot to rule them out.

 

Couldn't hurt.

[Zeke-BE]

Ok lancetkeyon I got some new information. I went out today to mess around with new loads. But something's are still off but it might not matter if I like the loads. My last velocity on those round that I started with on the forum were slow but my brothers factory Winchester round shooting 150 grain vs my 140 grain was shooting 2780 ft to 2800 fps. So we pulled one of his rounds apart and it weighed 47 grains of what it looks like Winchester powder (the small BBs type). My buddy had some W760 and loaded 53 grain max on the nosler book and I got 3000 fps and the book says 3018 (close enough) and we up one to 54 grains and got 3064 fps but the bolt got sticky and bulge the primer, so I stopped right away. Then I retried the H4831sc which we had a mistake and loaded it to the max of the IMR 4831 (which is 53.5 grains). This explains why that load was so slow. But it still doesn't add up to well. I shot the Max load according to Nosler Book at 58 grains. The book says 3000 fps but I got 2810 fps. I then shot a Winchester brass of what you said Lance earlier but it shot 90 fps slower. I cant be sure exactly I didn't load to many Winchester brass. Then I loaded the 4831 up to 59 grains and got 2850 fps, then loaded 60.5 grains and got 2945 fps, my brass is almost topped out but it showed no sign of wear on the brass and no sticky bolt.

Lance with your H4831sc you have 57.5 grains and shooting 2900 fps and shooting the 150 grain bullet and still passing my 140 grain accubond. Could this be truly the brass for this cause?? Or primer? I haven't tried a different primer yet. My brain starting to hurt!!

 

Also if my W760 works out I might go with that. I have never used it before so does any one have any experience on that Powder???

[STOMP442]

Have you tried using a different chronograph to verify readings?

[lancetkenyon]

W760 burn rate is faster than H4350, IMR4350, even H414. Way faster burn than 4831. Maybe your gun likes faster burning powder?

 

Here is a great chart for looking up powder burn rates. http://www.reloadersnest.com/burnrates.asp

 

Max loads listed in books are very conservative. Only your gun can tell you what it's max actually is. Some of mine are over published max, some are right at it, and others shoot best below. My 150gr. NAB LR is not a max load. I had two loads that were faster, and still showed no signs of pressure, but were not as accurate. So I stepped it down.

 

Speed is not your only friend. Accuracy and putting the bullet where it needs to go is more important. But the original velocities you were getting were well below what I would consider normal.

 

Also, more case capacity allows a bit more powder while still keeping pressures lower. So "Max" loads are not actually max in a case with more capacity.

 

I would be looking for between 2900-3050 with 140gr. bullets. Over that will be getting pretty hot, and while it might not show pressure signs, it will shorten brass life by loosening primer pockets and stretching cases over time, causing case head separation eventually. If you can live with 5-6 loading before your cases are junk, you can run a little hotter, but your gun will also suffer earlier throat wear. But barrels are like tires, they wear out over time when you run them hard.

 

I have a .22-250 that ONLY Likes one powder and one weight. Pickiest gun I have ever loaded for. But the load it likes? It REALLY Likes it! It went from a 1+ MOA gun, to a .157" gun once I found the load. And now shoots that consistently.

[PRDATR]

I've used W760 in a 30-06 with good results but I have heard that H414 is pretty temperature sensitive.