WHT_MTNMAN Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I agree with kwp and Shane, Just because they say unit 1 is being managed under alternative elk hunting objectives doesn't mean it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sjvcon Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Hey ... I'm not complaining about the number of tags being too low, and I haven't drawn in 15 years. But when I do go ... I want an opportunity at a nice bull ... not a raghorn. But I get the argument some people are making that there are a lot of people wanting success in the draw so G&F has raised the tag #'s. It's a tough situation ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
208muley Report post Posted September 30, 2014 This is a subject that is gonna make me jump into the discussion. I can tell you that just complaining to complain about quality of our elk or name calling, either azgfd or each other, won't fix one thing! Solutions are! My dad always told me not to bitch about things unless you have a solution to bring to the table, so here is mine. First, for arguements sake, allow me to make some assumptions to help me prove my point. The exact numbers will very. Let's say there are three types of elk hunters, 33% cow hunter, 33% any bull hunters, and 33% trophy bull hunters. With that assumption trophy bull hunters are the minority, although very vocal! So they will never get their way for statewide elk management changes. However if trophy hunters focus there energy in the " trophy" units we MAY be sucessful. In discussions with some of my WM friends the bottom line in any management is bull/ cow ratios. Understand a bull is a bull in their minds wether it is a 4 pt or a 400". And with them killing cows like they are they also have to reduce bull numbers drastically to keep them within guidelines. Now let's use unit 10, they have averaged 1700 cow tags in that unit for years, and elk numbers show that! So in turn they raise bull tags, 600 late, 100 early, 200 archery. Now, 10 has the reputation for giants, so when guys draw the tag, no expense is spared to kill a big bull, read that, better gear, guides, teams of helpers etc making them way more efficent. So all the pressure is on the 350 bulls and the unit shows this result as there are far fewer big bulls than there was just 5 years ago. azgfd just wants dead bulls, period, but hunters want big ones in this unit. So here is my idea: with cow tags staying the same and let's say they still want 900 bull tags to kill the number of bulls to keep the numbers within guidelines, why don't we change the hunt structure to achive the same or better kill ratio. So instead of 200 arch, 100early, and 600 late, let's do 100 arch, 50 early, and 200 late. So where did the 550 tags go? Well let's start a jr bull hunt, with the same fees as the adults as it will be a "premium" elk hunt however it is limited to 5 pt or less and broke bulls don't count, or mayebe they do not sure on that one, right after the early bull adult hunt. My thought are that time would be great cause the rut is winding down and little bull get with the cows and bugle good and they are in accessible spots, not nasty canyons, and it is the same time most kids are on fall break. This will achieve a couple things. 1 azgfd won't lose any money, 2, they will get what they want which is dead bulls, a kid doesn't care if it is a spike or a giant they just want to shoot a bull their parents do, 3 trophy hunters get aw Hat they want too, less big bulls killed due to not all pressure is on big ones. Young 6pts make it thru to be big bulls! Post hunt results need to be looked at and tags for the next year need to be adjusted, also this jr bull hunt should probably be rotated between 3 units every year. Please understand all my thoughts I have not put on this thread due to I hate typing but that is the gist of my thinking. I would also ask that if you want to add your ideas or discuss this please be respectful to everyone including azgfd. I don't agree with a lot of the things they do but bashing them will get nowhere. What do you guys think and what of this idea needs to be changed? Thanks, Eric 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
208muley Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Sorry about spelling or punctuation. I am not good on a keyboard. Lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim Report post Posted September 30, 2014 My thoughts on unit 1 would be that the unit had plenty of bulls prior to the fire and will stabilize after the herd slows down post fire. That's when the game and fish will put the tags back to pre fire numbers. If you think all the big bulls are being killed every year where do all the horn hunters keep finding all the sheds they haul in? Just go sit with the horn buyer in round valley and you will see that there are plenty of big bulls left after all the guys that dont know how to hunt elk unless they are screaming and running to calls. The guys that kill big bulls consistantly will continue to kill big bulls because they understand elk and put in the time to get it done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted September 30, 2014 I don't think there's much need to worry about what the G&F does one way or the other. The forest service is very proactively managing for trophy elk, deer and everything else with all their recent road closures. Those that have a hard time leaving their side by side & beer cooler behind are going to have lower success rates (allowing for greater tag sales without greater harvest numbers), but those of us that wear out a couple pairs of boots per year are soon to be in hog heaven. That is if we can ever draw a tag.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BeardownAZ Report post Posted September 30, 2014 The WM in question needs to read the Elk Hunt Guidelines. Units 1, 9, 10, and 23 will be managed under Alternate Elk Hunt Objectives. The bull to cow ratio in these units is managed higher and they are managed for more 6 point bulls. Hence the TROPHY Unit aspect.http://www.azgfd.gov/h_f/documents/huntguidelines.pdf This is funny. Unit 1 is not managed for a trophy unit. Its a product of the fire. 300 archery bull tags and a cow hunt going on the same time. Its a joke. Sure there are some giants but gnf shouldn't take credit for managing it that way. Maybe we should thank the USFS for torching the unit. Just give it a few more years. It'll be what 3a 3c now is. Because they managed it for trophy bulls about 10 yrs ago too. 27 is that way as well. They are stacking hunt on top of hunt. Went to setup camp for my dads early rifle bull hunt and people were every where. The 2 archery hunts(bull and cow)were still going on. The elk were pushed back in after 2 weeks of constant pressure. It wasn't how I imagined the early hunts would be like. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naturebob Report post Posted September 30, 2014 Unit one has allways had big bulls. But don't put in there guys, You won't find em...........BOB! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Report post Posted October 1, 2014 We could use a few more lose campfires in 5b.... thanks! To many freaking junipers popping up, all over the place! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
