Bighorn wish

[Explorer]

Am I the only one who wonders why there are no bighorn sheep in 8/6B sycamore canyon and redrock wilderness? It would be a tough hunt but it screams sheep country!

[Heat]

You are NOT alone! I have often wondered this myself. I agree that the habitat seems good. I wonder if anybody more involved with the Game and Fish or AZDBSS has any info about this? Thought I read something about this not too long ago, but I've slept a few times since then...

[AZkiller]

Lions?

[Explorer]

Why don't they transplant them there was more of what I was thinking..

[bonecollector777]

Probably some sort of disease problem there. Are there any domestic sheep around there? I talked to a game warden that said they wanted to put sheep in chevlon canyon on the border of 4a and 4b but since once a year domestic sheep get pushed through there they couldn't do it because a lot of disease is carried by domestic sheep that doesn't affect them but will kill off all the wild sheep.

[4Falls]

The sheep are doing great in 6a seems that 8/6b would be an obvious choice. I just dont think its high on the priority list.

 

 

Had to edit my post after reading the post above. Totally forgot they push domestic sheep thru unit 8 every year. Im sure that has some bearing on any transplants in there.

[cosninocanines]

Domestic sheep grazing in the summer and that creates a bad formula for introducing Big Horns. Sheep grazing on public and private land for over a hundred years in those units so very unlikely we will see any wild sheep in there.

[mbiewer]

After attending the mesa extension offices presentation on big horn sheep it goes something like this:

 

Domesticated sheep have biologically adapted over the years. Dom sheep have a membrane in their nasal cavity that Big horns do not. Likewise, dom sheep also carry a parasite with them. While the fly larva cannot breach the nasal membrane of a domestic sheep, the big horn are susceptible to the same larvae. If a domestic herd comes into close proximity to a big horn sheep herd, it is pretty much a death sentence.

 

Game and fish try to route and control the limits to where the sheep herders can migrate their flocks. But a the same time, they cannot control where the big horns "can or can't be".

 

The presentation had hands on displays of a big horn skull where the larva worked its way up the nasal cavity and set up camp in the sinus and into the brain of the big horn. Also got to see the devastation one of the bugs did to a horn (basically hollowed it out from the inside). Pretty gnarly.

 

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The presentation is in conjunction with the dolly steam boat on canyon lake. It's a Friday night class for "outdoor enthusiasts" of all types, followed by a saturday morning float on canyon looking for sheep. Usually happens mid-end of june before the monsoons hit. Worthy of a date night. lol

 

Matty

[Explorer]

I wish they would pass a law that any domestic animals found in wilderness areas are to be considered feral. Ranchers get away with to much and $5 dollars a head per month to destroy MY forest is not worth it.

[Explorer]

Oh by MY I mean I pay taxes= national forest funding..not trying to claim anything per say.

[bonecollector777]

I don't think the problem is sheep that get away from the ranchers. Just the fact that those ranchers have pushed sheep through there long before any thought of putting bighorn in there so unless you can pay off the ranchers or buy their lease from them (which I heard azgfd tried in 4b but the rancher said no way) there will probably never be bighorns there. All it takes is for one wild sheep to get to close to domestic sheep and then it spreads like wildfire to the rest of them.

[Explorer]

A lot of rancher abuse the system and the forest service lets them. Not g&f but I can show you many examples of ranchers bulldozing roads onto national forest that border their land and then having the NFS close all trails that go into that area only allowing the ranchers access. They cut down live oaks and build ponds all over the multi units. But get caught back there on foot and it's almost a gunfight.

[muleybowhunter]

A lot of rancher abuse the system and the forest service lets them. Not g&f but I can show you many examples of ranchers bulldozing roads onto national forest that border their land and then having the NFS close all trails that go into that area only allowing the ranchers access. They cut down live oaks and build ponds all over the multi units. But get caught back there on foot and it's almost a gunfight.

in 6b you have seen this?

[Explorer]

It states multi unit area. But it applies in general to the special treatment USFS gives to the ranch industry. A little off subject yes.

[1uglydude]

It states multi unit area. But it applies in general to the special treatment USFS gives to the ranch industry. A little off subject yes.

 

Ranching uses are specifically protected under the Federal Land Policy Management Act, which govern the use of the national forests. Don't forget that the forest service is a branch of the USDA. Hunting and fishing are not specifically protected uses on national forest lands. They almost were, but the Sportsmans bill got shot down a few months ago because Ted Cruz and some of the other congressional extremists got greedy and tried to amend the heck out of it to satisfy their political agendas.

 

Also, from what I recall from my training on federal land use, it's perfectly legal (and in fact mandatory) for the service or BLM to allow the continued use of grazing rights in areas that have since been designated wilderness (which, practically speaking, is all wilderness area because grazing was going on pretty much everywhere long before anyone even thought of designating wilderness).