Question of Ethics

[Whitetailcurse]

When I was growing up, my father was a member of the Phoenix Varmint Callers. I had fond memories of our summer PVCI camps and frequent predator calling trips and tournaments. One of the rules in the PVCI was that you could not use electronic calls during tournaments. So, my father spent many years teaching me to use hand calls. I perfected the art and can say with pride that I have taken many predators using hand calls. I agree that the electronic callers have come a long way in quality and ease of use, and there is certainly an advantage for the hunter, but are you honestly a skilled hunter if all you do is place a speaker in a bush and hit play? Opinions?

[Couzer]

Electronic calls have their place, calling for long periods of time with out stopping. But nothing beats a good hand call. I use both, most the time hand calls , and when I do use a electronic caller I always have a hand call as well.

[Coach]

I don't do too much calling. I bought a pricey e-caller a couple years back because I needed an excuse to get in the field between regular seasons. IMO, it's alright - I've never killed any yotes or cats calling with it, but I hardly ever use it. From an ethics standpoint, I don't have an issue with electronic calls.

 

What I do have is respect for are the guys who use mouth calls. To me it's more like tying your own flies, reloading your own ammo, building your own rifles and arrows. When you learn the art, as you have, you have a distinct advantage by being able to tweak each call based on the animal you are after. It's a more skill-based approach that electronic calls can't duplicate.

 

IMO, don't worry about the e-caller guys having an advantage. I think you have the edge by knowing what sounds to make and when, and having full control over that crucial part of the hunt.

[firstcoueswas80]

Picking the right tune is joust one of the many pieces of the puzzle needed to bag an intelligent coyote

[dse]

I've had three e-callers now, until last week I had never called a dog with a e-call and several with hand calls along with a couple foxes. Last week found a fox pro prairie blaster on clearance. Since then 3 song dogs thought they were having deer for breakfast and got lead poisoning instead. I do like hand calls, but if I can get more coyotes with an e-caller that's what I'll use.

[Edge]

Dad taught me to use a hand caller too and I always have one and a squeaker. I have just as a good of luck with the hand call as I do the e caller.

But I like to be able to have the critters come in to the e caller and not necessarily to me. I also like using the coyote pack locator feature of the e caller at night.

If I'm willing to hike into the wilderness alone at night to call in predators, I see the electronics as a fair trade off.

[CouesBuckhunter]

I don't think it really matters what you use as long as it results in a dead predator.

[idgaf]

I do not think your question is on ethics, but the "Art of Hunting" being done away with through electronics. That is the mastery of our chosen passion through practice, trial and error, and woodmanship is lost to the ease of convenience and innovation. To that I say, Yes and No, more and more people will use electronics rather than practice but as long as their are people teaching the next group of hunters the non easy way then it will never die. Furthermore, as the electronic guys get better they will look for the greater challenge and start taking up hand calling. We just need to ask ourselves is an electronic called trophy better than a hand called one and is the end result more important than the journey.

[Hyperwrx]

In case you didn't know Phoenix Varmint Callers (PVCI) now allows electronic callers in many of their yearly hunts. Both Arizona Predator Callers (APC) and Xtreme Predator Callers (XPC) allows you to use either hand calls or electronic callers.

 

I often chuckle at the traditional hunters who refrains from using an electronic caller but wont leave the house to archery deer hunt without his 340 feet per second 70 lb 80% let-off compound bow with the battery operated lit 5 pin fiber optic sight with micro adjustments or his semiautomatic black rifle with the fancy Nightcforce scope with mil dot reticle with some fancy 6.5 grendel load he's downloaded off the internet and cooked up in his garage.

 

I learned to predator call with hand calls back in the early 80's. Relearned in 2000 with Rich Higgins (President of PVCI for several terms) and his style of hand calling, then when fur prices began to climb, moved to a more efficient method (electronic call) of calling in bobcats and foxes. One ought to split up predator calling and predator hunting into 2 different categories. Good hand calling is an art form that in my opinion, few do well. It takes a lot more than blowing a call. A hand caller that can consistently put up good numbers (50+ a season) has an extensive knowledge of how to work an animal in close and close the deal. In all honesty there are few left in AZ who can and do do it.

 

An electronic caller makes it much easier to call in a predator but closing the deal and putting it on the ground is the tough part. That's where stand selection, good shooting, and knowing where to locate your prey comes into play.

[sherman]

I use both e callers and hand calls I tend to do better with hand calls. I mostly use my e caller if I am out alone and need to focus on what is comming in. If I where to put on a predator calling contest I would make it hand calls only because after all that is what I feel the contest is about. I love going out with my dad when I have newer plastic calles and he has just 4 old wooden circe calls

[thegunsmith2506]

Here are my thoughts.As hunters we all limit ourselves in one way or another. Some guys only hunt with a bow, some with only a recurve, some won't use an e-call, and so on. We do this because we enjoy the challenges these limits bring us, but in the end we are all working towards the same goal. A lot of guys tell me I am crazy because I never carry a rifle to my calling stands. For me I enjoy the challenge of calling the predators in close, but I don't mind using an e-call to do it.

I don't really think it has anything to do with ethics. I also don't think just anyone can go out, plop an e-caller into a bush, and have consistent success. In my opinion, the sound that is played has less to do with the success, than many other factors. Most predator callers do have a lot of blind luck, and I have been one of them many times. I also put in a lot of time scouting areas, and animals, to increases my success. The biggest advantage of an e-caller for me, is that it takes the focus off of me. Being that I usually call in really thick cover, and only carry a shotgun, I like the focus to be on the call and not on me. That being said, there are many times my e-call has failed on me and I have had to dig into my vest for the trusty old hand call. Nothing beats calling them into shotgun range with a hand call! As long as it is legal, who cares how the other guy hunts.

 

And by the way, thanks for teaching me how to hand call predators 15 years ago. It has been a blast!

[roninflag]

i called in my first coyote in 1965. my day called in hs first in 1953. both here in az with a hand call.

[ArizonaWildernessHunter]

I use e-calls and hand calls often. Sometimes I will use both on the same stand.

 

e-calls are a very good idea if by yourself. My dad always tells a story about a guy he went to school with that got torn up by a bobcat near Flagstaff using a hand call. About 7 years ago I nearly had a coyote bite me while using a hand call. Shot it close enough with a pistol the powder burned the fur and had saliva on my left boot where I kicked the thing off me. No rabies was ever found in the bobcat or the coyote. After that I don't use hand calls in heavy cover unless someone else can watch my back. I normally call in twice as many coyotes with a hand call vs an e-call. 1st thing I tell people that have really bad luck with an e-call is to turn down the volume.

 

Another nice thing about an e-call is you can still hunt if you have a bad cold. A lot easier to prevent a cough when just sitting there.

 

I know 2 hunters that think it is not fair to use any calls when hunting. They are of the opinion that since our natural predators don't use calls we shouldn't either. I tell them that they should sell all their guns and bows and they laugh every time.

[naturegirl]

I totally get your point and can relate it to other aspects of hunting, but I don't really think it's a question of ethics since it is legal to do here in Arizona.

 

I would definitely use an e-caller to get started and then most likely branch out into me doing the calling. For a beginner (not to mention a pro), my understanding is just getting a coyote into range with anything can be quite difficult.

 

We do want more dead predators so I say whichever one works then go with it. If there is ever a severe decline in the coyote population, then I'm sure our higher powers would look into discontinuing the use of e-callers, but that is extremely unlikely.

[edelbd6c]

E-calling has it's place. Most predator hunters I know do both. If e-calling is unethical we all might as well burn our rifles and only hunt with hand made bows and arrows.