Is it just me?

[Rembrant]

Now that I'm getting to be a crochety old fart, I have had the glorious opportunity to have spent thousands of hours in the field trying to figure the critters out.

The things I have learned really aren't that many and they are very dear to me.

It seems strange to me that a lot of us pass out the good stuff we know to virtually anyone who asks - simply because they asked.

I like it when I see someone taking the conversation to a private e-mail so that the whole world doesn't share the wealth.

Especially from now on, where the non-residents will reign in the draw, do we really want to e-mail the good hunting spots to the whole world?

It is great that there are people that are less selfish than I am, but does that benevelance have to be in this arena?

Are we really concerned about other people's hunts, or do some of us just need to let people know how smart we are?

Also, isn't the hunt more rewarding when the field work is done by yourself?

Unless you got a broken leg - GO SCOUT!!!

Mike

[muskrat]

I'm not sure if that is directed at me or not, since I've been in here bumming a lot of information lately....

 

That being said, I never ask for specific spots, and always welcome it if people want to send me information via PM, or none at all. I know when I reply to a topic where I may be able to offer some info - I gage at the time whether it is info that is general enough to offer in the open, or specific enough that I need to deliver it via PM.

 

I am quickly learning that it is a different mentality here, than where I came from ( 7 years ago, not last week) - that's for sure. Folks there seemed to love sharing info - in very specific terms even! "Go 3 miles down this road, take the logging road that veers off to the right, just past the beaver dam.. go 2 more miles and park there. Take the trail that is more to the east - you'll need to go another mile and a half or so...There's a little clear cut in there, and a big log on the north side that's great to sit on"

 

I don't like holding someone's hand any more than anyone else, but I hate seeing people getting branded as lazy, just because they ask for some help. That doesn't seem to happen on here as much, as I've seen on other boards. People wonder why the numbers of hunters are dwindling - it doesn't help when the perception is that we're snappy and secretive. It's not a geat way to recruit new members. PETA seems to be really friendly, though

 

On the other hand, I do see your point. Especially in Arizona with a rapidly growing population, and a lot of people asking questions are "here today, gone tomorrow". When I join a new board, I generally try to take part in many of the other threads, before I start e-scouting. (Of course, I jumped right in here - so much for that statement) Add to that, the concerns regarding non-residents, and USO, and dwindling habitat - some discretion doesn't hurt, I guess - when distributing information.

 

I guess what I'm saying is - I agree to a point....

[stanley]

Interesting topic Rembrant. (I also noticed your response to truett regarding the 23 archery coues question )

 

Seems like it is really a matter of preference. I don't mind giving out tips on tactics, etc., or overall impressions of a unit in public. I usually however tend to go to the e-mail or PM route for more detailed information. That goes for both giving information, as well as asking for info. I'll usually call on some of the folks I know in private for any kind of detail.

 

I know that I would be a little irritated if I saw someone coincidently give-out any of my honey hole information in public! On the other hand, I am ABSOLUTELY thankful for forums such as this, as it allows me to gain good overall knowledge and meet folks that I can develop friendly relationships with & network....

 

My $.02. You know what they say about opinions though....

 

S.

 

[Arizona Griz]

Mike, everything you said is basically correct, but if someone is new to Coues hunting or new to an area I don't mind giving a little bit of information to get them started. Then if the person wants a little bit more then they can PM me. I am sure not going to give out my honey holes that I worked for years in finding. I will not give any information to someone who is not registered. I even suggested to Amanda to make it a requirement to be registered before someone could post. You just never know who you are talking to. I am also not going to tell someone that there are no deer in a particular unit when everybody knows that if there are deer tags alloted then there are deer. People will get the impression that you are a wise a$$.

Arizona Griz.

[KGAINES]

I agree with you Arizona Griz about being registered, as far as giving info, I am pretty much willing to help anybody with what I have seen or know to a certain point. I think hunters in general love to talk, sometimes you can't believe everything you hear though and you need to get out there and scout, you can't expect to get info here and then show up opening morning and get a deer. Scouting is the only way to be sure, but it helps to have a starting point, and I was probably one of the first ones to ask on this site, and the information I got was all good from every body that gave it, but I still went and scouted for myself. I still haven't got a coues, but I have seen quite a few nice bucks.

I think also that Rembrandt has given as much info as anybody else on this site, and the PM statement is probably the way to go.

[COUESAZ]

I think we should all be willing to share tactics and some helpfull tips. I do get a bit nervoues when someone is giving to much info on a spot that will even get them headed in my direction. I think that we are all great guy's and girls here with some good info. If you read a post you can usualy tell if some one wants some tips and willing to do the rest of the ground work or if they want a hand out.

 

If a guy has a tag for a unit he will be hunting in that unit . He will be there with or without our tips. There is not a better group of guy's than sportsmen and coues deer hunters range right up there on top. We are very dedicated and passionate about our sport, And willing to talk about it with anyone that will listen to our stories. I bet I am the worst. So I hope you all keep up the good stories and pictures and the hints that I mooch off of every day.

[KGAINES]

One more thing to think about, if we weren't willing to share tips and tactics this website would only be for bragging and showing pictures of our trophies and I think the members of this website are better than that.

Good luck and God bless

[muskeg]

I have a lot of thoughts on this subject.

 

We have many more non-resident hunters come up here and hunt Black Bear than residents. So when your a public (web site) person like me you get a lot of info inquries. I am general in my info, but very helpful. I won't draw circles on a map and name places. When I guide a hunters in the places it took me many years to learn I ask them that they not hunt the exact places I hunt with them. They can use all the info that I teach them but I don't want to hike up to one of my mountains and find a group from Texas being led by someone that took a nice buck with me, type action. There is plenty of room to spread out and places that get rarely hunted to choose from.

 

From what I saw while in Unit 23 last Dec Cow season and in Unit 34a back in the late '90's (the last time I drew a Coues tag) there are plenty of lightly or even non hunted areas. Because of the rugged mountains. Also the draw keeps the hunter #'s down.

 

I took a stand in the upper Sawmill Canyon (34a) on opening day expecting hunters below to drive deer up. I could see the whole canyon below me. Not one hunter down there. Finally about 10 am one lone pickup came up the canyon and stopped way down there not doing my plan any good.

 

Az is like Alaska. Some vast rugged country. But Az has jeep roads.

 

I put in for Az because I can only hunt out of Alaska in Dec and Az is the only western state that has good Dec hunting. It also has great weather and is a good break from the Alaska stuff. I also sometimes hunt Cali for Hogs during the winter months.

 

When my son and I drew the party tag for Dec unit 23, I didn't mean to take that tag away from Rembrandt. It was a plan that I generally started back in '96 or so. I used the Az point system to get it. I have found a good unit (22&23) that I like that offers both Deer and Elk in Dec. Hunts that can be hunted back to back if lucky enough to be drawn for both. Or either one will do. My son wants to get some property around there. As it is very reasonable in the Young area. I plan on learning 22 and 23 as those will be the only draw I will be putting in for, probably.

 

It will be my sons first deer hunt in his life. As he has just started big game hunting in the last few years. Even though we are both along in age it will be great to be with him when he lowers the hammer on his first buck. for me it's the desert camping, travel out of Ak, being with my son and taking a buck is just iceing on the cake.

 

There are many ways to give the Residents of Arizona the priority to tags. The 10% cap is just one way. The non-resident hunt in Az is huge economics as it is here in Ak. The state promotes it. The system is set up that way. Ca and Wa do not solicit the non-res hunter and Or is inbetween with 2% and 5% non-res caps on draws. Actually Ca is starting to realise the value of the non-res hunter in the Hog hunt. But in all those states there are some over the counter general hunts for the non-res just like Az's jan bow hunting is.

 

I have asked for and received good hunt info from Az hunters on several boards. i have also traded and probably will trade services with Az hunters.

 

Some Az residents have also been rude when asking for info. Like a hunter that goes by Couesnam over on Jesse's. Some Az hunters are obviously taking there frustration about the USO court ruling aginst the non-res hunters.

 

I figure what goes around comes around.

[azpackhorse]

Well I guess I may be guilty of "giving out too much information" the last thing I wanted to do is to offend anyone. Arizona Griz does have a point about unregistered users. I, like many of you put alot of time into the areas that I hunt all year round and I personally don't mind giving what I see to be vague hints of where to begin in a particular area. By no means do I offer information to try to prove my intelligence, just to help what I see as a fellow sportsman perhaps have a better hunting experience. So if any of this was aimed at my post in the rifle section on 36B, I appologize.

[Red Rabbit]

I have given out info, and received info, (some very specific; if an e-mail could have red circles, it would), but this has been on the private side. I doubt that hardly any of us are giving information about our own honey holes or those of our friends(if we still want to be friends with them). When giving info, I factor in if I will be hunting that unit again, or how long until the next time I get to hunt it. For example, I doubt I will hunt unit 29 again, so I am more apt to divulge more specific info. On the other hand, if someone wants info about 36C, then my lips will be pursed tighter, as I still apply there(Stan, you did burn that map, didn't ya??? ).

 

Still, it depends on who is asking and how long they have been posting on the board. While many of us have never met (and may or may not like to share a camp together if we really knew each other), I think a link develops between us through the board that makes us more inclined to help each other. As a community of hunters in general, I hope that we are inclined to help each other. Is there much difference between going into the local sporting goods store or callling the game warden and asking for help, than asking on the internet. Is the info divulged here so widely used that a spot mentioned will be inundated with subsequent hunters. Really, how many people that read a post are actually drawn for that unit and will hunt that particular canyon mentioned out of the other spots that have been suggested to them?

 

Some of you are guides and have spent a lot more time and effort learning many good hunting spots to take your clients. I wouldn't expect you to give info about a spot to which you will return with clients or friends.

 

Tonight, I talked on the phone with a first time poster about elk in Unit 9. I told him where I had hunted my previous hunts and made some suggestions. Turns out, he had just graduated from the high school I have been teaching at. Sure, my first choice every year on the application is Unit 9 archery bull, but I may not be drawn for ten more years, so does it really matter if I point him in a certain direction. I was happy to help him out, and hope he gets a nice bull. Next year, there will be another crop of hunters in the unit who probably have never been drawn before, and probably never will be again in these high demand units.

 

Are there really any "secret" spots? I think most are really spots(and all are on a map) that require more research and boot leather to find than the glassing spot on the side of the road that lazy hunters park their 4x4 at.

 

I put my 2 cents into the parking meter and it's expired.

 

Doug/Redrabbit

[Kilimanjaro]

I kinda feel in a way that this topic is, in a way, directed towards me. The reason that I came to this site is because alot of the folks that I have come to know through the MonsterMuley forum also chat here. I figured I'd come to this site and find some helpful info on my upcoming hunt. And I did from alot of you and I thank you for the info that y'all shared. I am in no way looking for an easy way out to bag a buck this fall. I am fairly confident in my ability to put a pack on and leave the rest of the road hunters in the dust. I think I can hold my own in that department. I guided for 6 years in New Zealand, Africa, TX, and Mexico and so on, and so on. Just because you ask for info does'nt mean you are lazy. I was only looking to get a general idea on where I could start MY SCOUTING (sarcasum intended). I am in no way looking for someone to hold my hand and walk me to their secret, magic, honey-hole that no knows about!! Just an idea on where to start. because technically I am a resident of AZ but only because I have to be because of my job. I have only been here a little over a year and needed a little guidence on where to start so I can have an enjoyable and hopfully sucessful first coues deer hunt. Again, thanks to all the members who have given me a heads up for this fall.

 

I think several of you already have said exactly what I would like to. We are all sportmen here and I don't see any harm in sharing our sport with one another. heck, who else really wants to know about stuff like this execept hunters like ourselves? Not alot of people that I know! Most of the public could care less! I think we should try and stick together on certain things like this. I would have no problem in sharing any info I could give about areas that I am familiar with back in TX or anywhere else I may know about. If you don't like the fact that many people come to sites just like this one to give AND RECEIVE info on hunts and to share hunting as a whole, I can't help that. But please, not look down your nose at the rest of us just because you don't agree with it .

Scottyboy

 

Any body else have an opinion on this ??????

[Guest Ernesto C]

Mike and my fellow membersI think that when some body ask a question about and specific area is up to the individual to give an aswer or not.

If you or any body else ask me a question about an area or something else and if I know the answer I will give it to you. You may need my help today but I may need your help tomorrow,so I always try to help because you never know.

 

Also when somebody here ask a question we do not know how old is that individual so if a 12 or 14 year kid is asking for help or advice we can not give out or cause a bad impression.In my personal opinion we must help out it does not matter how old is that person but is just my opinion.

 

If I ask any of you to take me to your hunt so I can help you glass and pack your deer and have fun and the hunt of a life time what will you say?? No because you will now my "secret spot".

 

I will love to help you guys in any way possible, so if some day I ask you my fellow members for help I hope you don't let mew dow.

 

I run out of pennies take care and God bless you all.

 

Ernesto C.

 

A true friend never gets in your way unless your are going down.

[Rembrant]

All very good points. Thanks for the exchange. Yes, I was being a wise acre in the bowhunting section (sometimes I think I'm funny).

I probably should not have included the last sentence about doing your own scouting, and I certainly was not singleing out anyone in particular. This kind of sharing has been going on since the beginning and I have also been a part of it.

I had mixed feelings as I typed the beginning of this string and my heart rate increased, knowing that I may be going against one of the basic fabrics of this site, and that what I am saying is really very selfish.

I just wonder if it is unwise to give exact directions in an open forum. If you give these kind of directions and only 10% of the tag holders for an up-coming rifle hunt of 300 tags decide to give it a try, you will have 30 trucks parked on the same point opening morning! Hypothetical, I know. But not unrealistic. And if this sort of thing happens, are we helping anybody?

Y'all do what you wanna do. I won't say another word about it. Thought it should be aired out a little bit.

Thanks,

Mike

[muskrat]

Mike - I enjoyed the thread, actually - thanks for putting it out there.

 

 

Note! Anyone who wants to send me exact directions to their hunting spots in 22, 24B, or 37B please do so via PM, or over coffee

 

[Pigman]

Seems like this topic is popping up on a lot of the local sites lately, don't know if it's because of the USO mess or a combination of things. The difference is that here it has been a friendly exchange of ideas and points of view, and hasn't sunken to an all-out "bash-fest". The way I look at it, is that I would never expect someone to give out specific information on any location that they currently hunt, or plan to hunt in the future - to me that is just common sense. I have asked a few questions to this board and have gotten nothing but helpful, positive responses - both on-line and off-line. I haven't had too much to offer to this site in return yet, but I have given specific info in regards to Javalina on another site. Was it the area I currently hunt - no way. Was it useful information - I don't know. It was meant to be, and hopefully it was. I guess my point is that if someone wants to help, they should help. If not, just don't reply. As far as giving info in a pm or email - probably a good idea. I know when I see info about one of my units in a thread it is a little disappointing, but then I don't own that info or that unit. As for cyber scouting - I think the problem has been blown a little out of preparation. If someone gets drawn, and the only scouting they plan on doing is on the internet, even if you give them gps coordinates they will probably not fill their tag. If it offends anyone (cyber scouting) just don't answer or definitely, don't give specific info - easy as that. I'll admit, when I found out I drew a 24B tag, one of the first things I did was to search this and a couple other sites for anything I could find on the unit. Am I done? Not a chance - I haven't even gotten started yet, but at least I have a place to start. Maybe later on after I do my homework, I may see if anyone has any other info they would like to share - does that make me lazy? Unfortunately nowadays it isn't as easy as it used to be to find someone to talk hunting with - we are a little outnumbered. I think that is what sites like this one are for. One more rant and then I'm done - I've read the argument quite frequently that you should do your scouting before you apply. With the way the draw has been going lately (and it ain't going to get any easier) and the fact that I'm not getting any younger, that doesn't seem to be a very sound argument. I'll pretty much hunt anything I can get drawn for, anywhere I can. Don't think too many of us can scout all of the units prior to applying. Sorry this was so long, had to get it out somewhere where I wouldn't get my head taken off! Thanks

 

John