4Falls Report post Posted July 31, 2014 Its not only guides who employ the gang hunt tactic. Most every hunt I'm on nowadays there are groups with one tag holder and a string of buddies fanned out helping. Not my thing (mostly cause I have no friends, haa) but i just like doin it alone. To each his own as long as no one is hassling me or ruining my hunt intentionally its all fine. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gotcoues Report post Posted July 31, 2014 I agree with coues n sheep. Almost seems like if someone has the capabilities and time to spend to do something better than someone else the people that don't have those abilities and time wanna figure out how they can level the field. If you wanna kill huge animals year after year like outfitters do then put the same time and money into it as they do and you'll get results. If you don't have the time or money then you're out of luck. Just like people can go buy a jet and I cant. I don't think it's unfair that they can and I cant. If I want to I'll have to suck it up and figure out how and if I can't then I don't get my jet. The animals out there aren't claimed or taken by anyone until they die and have a tag around their antlers. Everyone has the same opportunity to go find them and kill them. Just some guys have more resources to do it. That's just life and has been that way in all things since the world began. Some people have to money for it and some don't. Get out there and scout hard and you'll find nice animals to kill. Some guys do it themselves and some guys pay others to do it for them. Whatever floats their boat. Their money and they can buy what they want with it. More regulations never has helped or will help anything in this world. I think I would be willing to wager a one million dollar bet that you did not vote for Obama....... Well said my friend 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PRDATR Report post Posted July 31, 2014 I have always driven into an area to set up camp where there is enough space where I can roll out of my sleeping bag and walk out of the camp and start hunting and usually into an are that is either wilderness or has no roads into it so I can do my thing away from other hunters. A couple of times this wasn't possible and there were other hunters and upon one occasion a well know guide was camped across the road from me. I just walk into camp and ask where he, his posse and client will be hunting each day. Everyone has a different perspective on it and there is a lot of pressure that a guide put's on himself. From what I've seen there isn't much money to be made at it and I've done the math of both of the guided hunts I have been on. But both outfits were, in my opinion, top notch and both times it was just one on one which was fine for me as each time the ultimate goal for me was not filling the tag being the sole outcome of whether the hunt was a success or not but to learn, enjoy the pursuit and return home without breaking any bones or getting eaten. Sure, I would love to tag out on a record book animal on each hunt, who wouldn't. I've spent plenty of time wandering around during pre-season getting sunburned and blisters looking for sign and glassing but I don't begrudge the folks who set up trailcams or have ATV's because it's not my thing. A little respect and common sense is all most people need and I can tell you that we can do without more regulations. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jim Report post Posted July 31, 2014 I think what the guy was trying to say is to have someone cut you off saying they were stalking the animal and they are not actually hunting just trying to block you from hunting that animal until the guide can get their client over there. Spotting is one thing intefering with anothers hunt is illegal. You do not have the right to stop someone from pursuing a animal. When I had the 22 sept tag I had some real nice folks warn me not to hunt certain bulls as there would be others(spotters) keeping them alive until muzzle loader season. We also ran into that in 10 last year a couple times when a couple guys told us to not hunt a certain ridge because they were after a certain bull. 11m 3 years ago had a young guy running around telling us and others he would kill people for hunting his bull. The game and fish were called and they spent several days trying to find him. With all that said I do not believe we need anymore regs out there. As with all factions of life some people are just nuts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Str8Shot Report post Posted July 31, 2014 p.s. If you run into an outfitter using spotters without a tag trying to make it look like a hunter is on a spot or several spots, ask to see their license and tag, and if they refuse give a call to G&F.... may take away a little time but feels good seeing them escorted away and see G&F out there finding their buddies doing the same thing. I'm confused. . When has it been illegal for someone to set up spotters and act like they are there with a hunter? I also don't think anyone has a right to try and force someone to show you their tag. If an outfitter has 100 guys surrounding a hillside with a buck on it I'm pretty sure there is nothing azgfd is gonna do about. I am speaking from an experience a couple years back where 1 hunter had about 6 others camping out and spread about the unit... My friend knew they were spotters and not hunters and when he got to his planned spot one of them where there. My friend told the spotter that he was going to hunt the spot since he knew the spotter did not have a tag. That is when the bullying and threats started coming from the spotter ( lets just say patting your sidearm followed by gripping it while telling a tagged hunter if they know what is good for them they will leave is not very ethical) . G&F was called and basically told the spotter that the hunter with the tag had every right to stay and that if he continued to stay and try and intimidate / threaten that he could be opening himself up to criminal charges for his actions. None the less the G&F officer recommend he left and hung out until the guy did. If you know the guy is a spotter for a group with no tag, then take your seat in the spot , first come first serve during and active hunt is for tagged hunters, not 1 hunter and their goons spread out in several spots. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willhunt4coues Report post Posted July 31, 2014 I was talking to my G&F officer here and he said it has been brought up about making trail cameras illegal up north on the Kiabab and Strip because too many people are complaining that they can not hang a camera because if the numerous cameras already in one spot. His words! I really doubt that all the cameras you see at one pond are one persons and most likely numerous people. He did say people are complaining granted this was a few years back but this is what happens people start to complain. Personally if I saw more than one cam on a spot I would still hang my camera. Why not they are all there so no one is messing with them anyways you have a right to hang it there also. I guide but do not do it full time and usually take 1 client a year because of my work schedule. If I see a camera at "MY SPOT" lol then so be it I may or may not hang my cam. If people keep complaining they will not regulate it they will completely make it illegal to hang cameras. Look at the baiting issue. People complained that too many critters were being taken thank god they did not do away with it all the way but if people start complaining about the salt then guess what it will be gone too. I use to worry about who was going to be here, there any more I just went back to the way I use to hunt and enjoy myself as much as I can and quit worrying about what is going to happen. Scout, learn, hunt, and hunt even harder then you did before and it will pay off. I don't worry about what Joe is doing I just worry about myself. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azelkhunter2 Report post Posted July 31, 2014 As someone who up until this yr was a licensed guide for almost 20yrs, I speak from experience when I say that things have changed drastically over the yrs. This change has taken place with both the DIY hunter and the guide / outfitter. The instant information / gratification that comes with internet use and the RIGHT NOW feedback that is provided has had a huge effect on how hunters view the end result. Gone are the days of when a 6x6 bull or a nice 4x4 MD were the talk of the neighborhood or local sporting good shop. Now if it's not 400 plus or 200 plus you wasted your tag...So both outfitted hunters and DIY hunters use EVERY tool that is available to them, Most top outfitters utilize trail cams, aircraft, and experienced guides and spotters, They do so because this is how they pay their bills and if they don't produce EVERY yr they are replaced by the next outfitter that does. As long as they abide by rules and regulations already in place there is no need for more oversight. When abuse of the rules takes place it needs to be addressed quickly and firmly so that it does not happen again...But with that said I find it amusing that yr after yr I read several stories on the internet of outfitters harassing hunters and blocking roads and running hunters off entire mountains, Yet with all the cell phones out there that all have the ability to take both pictures and record video not one shows up...Now i'm not gonna say it does not happen, I have had my share of run in's with other outfitters but 99% of the time they want nothing to do with a conflict, It's not good for business and if they break the law they can loose the ability to work !!...If you truly believe that outfitters are the only ones who have non tag holders sit water or wallows to keep other hunters out, Or have a large team of helpers / spotters you could not be more WRONG !!....Most Sept bull tag holders, Strip hunters, late Kaibab hunters have a small army with them, Along with trail cams and in some cases the ability to fly the unit, And in SEPT near everyone of them are tromping through the woods with a fu####king hoochie mama or recorded elk call pushing the button. ( But I digress ) But they ALL have the right and it's legal !!... Now on to who has the right to be where and when. I'm not sure why we as hunters feel that a tag gives us more right to be on PUBLIC land more then the next guy. The non hunters, picture takers, people who just want to see wild game up close have just as much right to be on that water hole, tree stand or hill side as we hunters do. I once had a group of 3 french tourist sitting in a ground blind I had built cause they wanted to see if bull elk really made that sound !!...They had just as much right to it as myself and my hunter had...Keep in mind that a little common sense and courtesy can go a long way, And we as hunters have no more right to the land as the next guy, Tag holder or not !!..... 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
4Falls Report post Posted August 1, 2014 Very well put azelkhunter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bojangles Report post Posted August 1, 2014 i "wish" it were illegal to pay someone to guide for you.... i also" wish" it were illegal to "lease" hunting property back east... but we all don't get what we wish for. Truth is, i really don't care what the guides do as long as it doesn't diminish my privilege (sp?) to hunt. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Idcurs Report post Posted August 1, 2014 We don't need another law,we have more than enough now.Do some guides push the laws or go beyond--you bet.Now if you are spotting for a guide or outfitter or getting a finders fee you need a guide license-this from G&F.I have had many problems from different guides,but I am one of those type guys that makes friction!!!!I have guided and hunted and in many units that have trail cams on every water hole.In 9 a few years back we wanted to get some tape on a big bull the Mullin's boys called Wilber.I had seen him out in a flat and knew he would water on this hole.In the morning no less that 12 trucks came up to check cams,there were 27 on this water.That afternoon 15 showed up to check cams and a couple put up new ones.Bad spot to sit,but just about the time we were going to leave Wilber came in with a smaller bull.Its was very cool to see him.I had a archery tag in there that year he was taken by the gov tag holder a couple weeks later,before my hunt.It seams when a big buck or bull is in an area you can tell by the number of Cams on the Waters?On the strip one of the G&F drinkers had 33 cams wow thats 1 cam for every two hunters up there that year.Even if you have a cam on a water most of the time you have to still go hunt that critter,they tell you he's there but don't put him in the truck!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
assassin Report post Posted August 1, 2014 This thread takes the cake for most long-winded responses. Most of which I agree with 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattys281 Report post Posted August 1, 2014 I think what the guy was trying to say is to have someone cut you off saying they were stalking the animal and they are not actually hunting just trying to block you from hun. ng that animal until the guide can get their client over there. Spotting is one thing intefering with anothers hunt is illegal. You do not have the right to stop someone from pursuing a animal. When I had the 22 sept tag I had some real nice folks warn me not to hunt certain bulls as there would be others(spotters) keeping them alive until muzzle loader season. We also ran into that in 10 last year a couple times when a couple guys told us to not hunt a certain ridge because they were after a certain bull. 11m 3 years ago had a young guy running around telling us and others he would kill people for hunting his bull. The game and fish were called and they spent several days trying to find him. With all that said I do not believe we need anymore regs out there. As with all factions of life some people are just nuts. I dont know about the rest of you but if some s.o.b. was stupid enough to threaten me out in the trees, he'll be lying right there while I walk away. My conscience is ok with assuming that he was both armed and serious about it. Can't believe people are stupid enough to act like that over animals they dont even own. A little courtesy goes a long way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rossislider Report post Posted August 1, 2014 I just want to know where the 300 cams are. I could use a few more... Laugh, it's a joke people! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
naturebob Report post Posted August 1, 2014 I feel bad for the people that did vote for obamma. Including My son. We argue every 10 minutes. .I just want a 400" bull , don't care who finds it. Chances are good I will ,but if not I still win...........BOB! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muley224 Report post Posted August 2, 2014 What did the snail say when he jumped on the turtles back ?..................... weeeeeeeeeeee. Just tryin to lighten the mood. LOL 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
