stanley Report post Posted August 3, 2014 Pays to have a VERY smart scientist in the family! Outstanding news that Paul is recovering, Amanda! S. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tucson John Report post Posted August 3, 2014 Wow! How did I miss this thread?! I'm glad Paul is doing good and Thanks Amanda for the detailed follow up and information. Belated and continued prayers! You guys should get a Nobel prize for this! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
125coues Report post Posted August 3, 2014 Wow after looking up what type of tick you showed that was on Paul I found it to look a lot like the male dog tick is that what you and the other experts are saying it is and do you know if they are going to put out alerts or something in the area where he was bitten so this might not happen to someone else.also did you find anything that someone could us such as the sprays or oils to help with bug bites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted August 3, 2014 The tick is not a dog tick, it's one of two Amblyomma species of ticks (you have to have a specimen in hand to measure some hairs on back leg to tell the difference). We believe it's Amblyomma triste and it carries Rickettsia parkeri bacteria which causes a different type of spotted fever from regular Rocky Mtn Spotted Fever. The tick has only been documented a few times in Cochise and Santa Cruz counties. I don't think anyone has ever documented it infecting anyone in Arizona, which is why they are so interested in this case. But just so you know, the brown dog tick is the tick that carries Rocky Mtn Spotted Fever and is the one responsible for infecting lots of people in Arizona. The incidence of RMSF in AZ has increased a lot in the last few years. This tick and RMSF are most often found where there are lots of stray dogs with ticks. The indian reservations in Arizona are suffering a lot from this disease. The Gila Co health department told me the San Carlos reservation has had a lot of cases of RMSF. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted August 3, 2014 1st pic is the one that was on Paul 2nd pic is a definite Amblyomma triste tick photo from a tick ID website. The Amblyomma species ticks have much longer mouthparts than the dog tick or wood ticks that are found in AZ. And the pattern on the back is much more striking. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted August 3, 2014 Kathi you asked about bug sprays that would help with avoiding bites like this.....several websites recommend treating your clothes with Permethrin. It kills insects that get on your clothes. I remember looking into this when I was planning our trip to belize to help avoid malaria. I never used it, but I know you can buy it and treat your clothes with it and it lasts a long time. But it's not a chemical to mess with if you don't have to. http://www.rei.com/product/768970/sawyer-permethrin-pump-spray-24-oz 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
125coues Report post Posted August 3, 2014 Amanda i am the one who looked up pics of the tick and I guess I would make the mistake between the two because I am unable to measure hair on the legs of ticks but the pic I saw of the male dog tick sure did look alike Mark Scary little bugs though and up close even scarier A few years back a friend of mine got into what I would call a nest of chiggers and he got sick from all the bites he had ,I think he counted over 50 bites from his ankles to above his belt Dang now I got myself itchy. Mark Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted August 3, 2014 Amanda i am the one who looked up pics of the tick and I guess I would make the mistake between the two because I am unable to measure hair on the legs of ticks but the pic I saw of the male dog tick sure did look alike Mark Scary little bugs though and up close even scarier A few years back a friend of mine got into what I would call a nest of chiggers and he got sick from all the bites he had ,I think he counted over 50 bites from his ankles to above his belt Dang now I got myself itchy. Mark LOL!! Sorry, I thought it was Kathi.....fyi, You don't have to measure the hairs to differentiate a dog tick from a Amblyomma tick. That's just for the difference between the two Amblyomma species (maculatum and triste) as they look identical to each other. If you go back and look at the picture of the dog tick and compare it to the one on paul you will likely see the dramatic difference in pattern on the back and size of mouthparts. The pattern on the back of the Amblyomma ticks is much more striking and defined than the dog tick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AZ8 Report post Posted August 3, 2014 Did you get a picture of the lesion on your husband's arm? Would be a good reference for what to look for. Glad he's doing better!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted August 3, 2014 yes, here is a pic of the wound on his arm. It started out as just a raised red bump, much like a large pimple, but after a week or so it became this weird ulcerated wound that formed an unusual scab. If you google "R. parkeri eschar lesion" you will see lots of pics of people with a similar wound from being infected by this bacteria. The Gila Co health lady said the CDC told her only a tick can make this wound, but if I remember right it looks alot like the wound a friend of mine got after getting bit by a black widow spider. Anyway, it was unusual enough for Paul to mention it to his doctor. Unfortunately the doctor wasn't familiar with the type of wound and just gave him some ointment for it. It wasn't until later that I saw the online pics that I realized it was strikingly similar to the eschar lesion. Paul assumed it was a wound he got after getting a thorn or something stuck in him, so early on, we didn't associate this wound with his illness. Not until I figured out the tick species did we realize it was likely the site of the tick bite. I also included a pic of the rash that formed on his side and belly. As of today, the spots seem to be gone. This rash does not itch, it just is there. With RMSF the rash normally starts on hands and feet and moves to abdomen. So I was checking his hands and feet a lot. But we first saw the rash on his side and then we saw it on his legs and back, but nowhere near as obvious as the one on his abdomen. This wound in the picture has healed quite a bit. It was larger and more obvious several days before this pic was taken. You can google that type of wound and see more pics. The CDC requested a biopsy of the lesion so they could see if the bacteria were still present. This wound formed a few inches from where Paul thinks he pulled the tick off his arm. So we are not sure if he is remembering wrong about the location or if there was a third tick that bit him and we never saw it before it dropped off. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctafoya Report post Posted August 4, 2014 Scary stuff there. How long was the tick on him? When I was a lot younger I lived in Brownsville TX and had a tick get me at the base of the back of my head. Put me down sick with the worst headache for two days. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucky2hunt Report post Posted August 4, 2014 It will be a grievous, unscrupulous, inexcusable error (nose pinched, nerdy scientist voice) if you do not get 'co-author' credit for the published case!!! We shall now call you... Sherlock, for your investigative prowess!!! p.s. Glad Paul is getting better! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CouesWhitetail Report post Posted August 4, 2014 We shall see how it turns out.....maybe I am completely wrong with all my suspicions of what this is. Maybe we will find out it was just some spider or something that bit him. I will keep you all posted. Regardless of what this turns out to be, it is wise to pay attention to tick bites in Arizona!! They can cause serious disease with fatal or long-term health consequences! Ctafoya, we don't know how long the ticks were on him. Based on where we hiked, I suspect he picked them up in a brushy area we had to bust through to get around a really deep pool of water. That would mean the ticks were on him for about an hour to an hour an a half before we saw them. The one he pulled off him, seemed to be attached but not engorged. We suspect there was another tick that fed on him and fell off before we noticed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
125coues Report post Posted August 4, 2014 From hockey player to scientist pretty impressive I should say 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoghntr Report post Posted August 6, 2014 I have been positive 3 times for lyme. confirmation tests always show negative.. kinda makes me wonder?? you know lyme from my understanding can stay attatched to 1 cell in your body and bounce around and make ya sick. docs do regular blood tests and it shoes negative but you may actually be innfected just your infection was elsewhere in body and not cooperating with blood test at that time.. they have very accurate ways of testing but they are very extensive and expensive! so since az is supposedly not a big lyme state they will never consider the expensive tests so I would say many sick people in az probably living with lyme.. our periodic illness that flares and requires antibiotics yet that have no difinitive reason why just might be lyme. stupid ticks! ok if God allows 1 question in heaven imk gonna ask why ticks and things that sting or invenomate us! im glad he is recovering and im waiting in anticipation the answer to what exactly this is that you all tangled with.. oh by chance is this tick common in mexico and maybe being brought accross the border by all our visitors?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
