mechanical broadheads success and failures

[HuntHarder]

Have you ever cleaned an elk? What other explanation do you give for 0 penetration. Surely you do not attribute the blades opening on a rage broad head to losing all penetration. I do not care if you are shooting practice blades on the rage broadhead, at 10-20 yards, if you hit an elk broadside, you will get more penetration than that.

 

Have you listened to the loud THWACK! That is the worse sound in the world to hear while elk hunting. If you hit an elk in the vitals and avoid all shoulder, it sounds like a hollow sound. Looks like a low shoulder/leg hit.

 

I am not a rage fan by any means, but many bulls have been killed with 350 grain arrows and expandables.

[creed_az_88]

I've cleaned an elk or two in my lifetime. Ive also watched the video in slow motion frame by frame. Either we are interpreting the shot placement on the video differently or we have differing opinions on where the shoulder is located. I started this thread for educational purposes only and posited the video only in response to a few others asking to see it, and not to bash rage. I think rages have their place, its just not in front of a light arrow traveling towards an elk. I believe the thwack is from a rib being hit center on the entrance. I've heard it more than once on multiple double lunged animals including deer.

[GotBowAz]

I have killed elk at a broadside shot with the huge 125 grain vortex 2 and 3/4 wide blades and have achieved a pssthrough. I did not hit heavy bone and it was with a 420 grain total weight arrow out of a 70 pound bow.

 

Years ago we shot bows that didn't have the energy of today's bows and we NEED that energy for mechanical heads.This is yet IMO another reason Mechanical heads failed and got such a bad rap.

 

Putting that aside and checking out the video this is my take. It was a great shot, light arrow or not it should have given a little more penetration. My theory is just before impact the broad head (just one blade) opened in flight, see the drawing below, its a little crude but it's what I think may have happened and has happened to others with the same lack of penetration. The blade turned, the blades are independent of each other rather than sliding in the cam slot on impact it hit sideways literally stopping penetration. Again its just speculation but I think its possible in this case.

 

 

[GreyGhost85]

Have you ever cleaned an elk? What other explanation do you give for 0 penetration. Surely you do not attribute the blades opening on a rage broad head to losing all penetration. I do not care if you are shooting practice blades on the rage broadhead, at 10-20 yards, if you hit an elk broadside, you will get more penetration than that.

 

Have you listened to the loud THWACK! That is the worse sound in the world to hear while elk hunting. If you hit an elk in the vitals and avoid all shoulder, it sounds like a hollow sound. Looks like a low shoulder/leg hit.

 

I am not a rage fan by any means, but many bulls have been killed with 350 grain arrows and expandables.

i have cleaned an elk or two, see my avatar. my family also used to run a very well known butcher shop in the heart of elk country. i am VERY familiar with elk anatomy. i have been on over 50 elk kills, and no matter where you hit an elk, minus a couple obvious spots, there should be more penetration out of a 70lb bow than that. i am by no way saying a shoulder shot should be lethal, or is in any way a lethal shot but, that was not a shoulder shot.

[HuntHarder]

Gotbow's scenario is definitely plausible. What kind of equipment was he shooting?

[creed_az_88]

65 lb PSE not sure what model. Gold tip arrows 100 grain head. Probably 27 inch arrow. Gold tips are light.

[GotBowAz]

That is on the light side for a 100 grain Rage but he still should have gotten more penetration. I doubt he would have got a pass through but that shot still should have been lethal. I've been playing the video over and over on my big monitor, it still looks like a great shot, but just from hearing the hit it sounds to me like the head stopped abruptly like a metal slap. I have a hunch one blade rotated instead of sliding in the cam slot. I cant see any other explanation for it.

[buffhunter]

Looks to me that he caught the back of that knuckle with one blade which took a ton of the energy from that already light package. Plus you said his arrow was 27in I think...... so he has a shorter draw which will produce less energy....... he needed more grain weight and more poundage to shoot a rage on a bull elk... just a question? Was the arrow ever recovered? And was the front of the arrow intact? Like was the broadhead sill in the arrow and not snapped off at the insert? The reason I am asking is a few years ago I shot a very nice bull well over 350. And I thought I shoulder shot him (it all happened so fast) but we were in the wide open at 50yards. When the arrow hit him it made that super loud wack sound. when he broke and ran I saw the arrow hanging straight down instead of sticking straight out like a shoulder shot should look. It puzzled me I found my arrow 20 yards later (no trees around) and it was snapped off right at the back of the insert. Later I talked to a very good friend of mine that has done extensive broadhead testing while they were developing the wapiti broadhead. They tested all kinds of heads along side the wapiti. I told him what happened and he said you made a great shot just very very unlucky. I said why? He said during all of their testing on fresh mature bull elk carcass rib cages they covered with carpet and stuffed with wet newspapers about 5% of the time they would have a bull elk rib stop a broadhead. And that was mechanical and fixed alike from 30 yards. He said that is the only way your arrow could of snapped off like that with no trees around. He said the arrow was stuck in the rib and when his leg bone or shoulder came back to run it snapped it off, if it was a shoulder hit the arrow would of been sticking straight out till he broke it off on a tree or something. And when I shot that bull I was shooting a 420grn arrow tipped with a 100grn slick trick pushing 290fps.

 

This is just my opinion. .......... but there is no need to shoot an elk that low and far enough forward to flirt with the shoulder or knuckle. There is a ton of room behind the shoulder to catch lungs . I have shot quite a few elk 6in behind the shoulder and center of mass from top to bottom and watched them all die. And when I gutted them I center punched the lungs. I had a good 5-6 inches of lungs behind my hit. Also when you get a little further back on the lungs there are a ton more capillaries to hit which in turn expire the elk quicker.

[muledeerman]

I have never been a fan of expandables due to failure on javelina. This past January I decided to let my son try the Grave Diggers with the on contact tips during his javelina hunt to see if they have improved. His bow is set at around 38 pounds. He made a less than perfect shot on a pig at 10 yards and got a full pass through. Since it was a little back, I gave the pig about an hour and went find it. The only thing that saved us from a long search was one of the huge expandables caught the edge of one of the lungs and spit it open.

I have heard they have been using the chisel tipped heads on the big pigs in Texas with great success. If they can put down one of those pigs, then I think they would work on elk. I personally prefer any broadhead that is a cut on contact tip. It takes much less kinetic energy to penetrate than a chisel tip. David

The Grave Digger blades are adjustable also with a set screw, so you can adjust them and see what works best with lower poundage and higher if you shoot up to 80lbs. I think they ship out adjusted for 70lbs but you can set them for your son to get better performance at a lower poundage. Just wanted to point that out if you did not know already and congrats to your son on the javi!

[creed_az_88]

Buff, his arrow stuck in the bull and fell out about 20 yards away from the point of impact. The arrow and the broad head were both unharmed although the broad head blades were beyond dull. It appeared that the arrow had penetrated about 6-7 inches because that much of the shaft was covered in blood and the rest of the shaft had Nothing. We gave the bull a couple of hours before tracking. We ran into him after about a mile of extremely tough tracking and six hours. He was bedded and ran off before we noticed him in front of us. He appeared to not be in too bad of shape and unless infection set in, he should have lived.

[HuntHarder]

Hey Buffhunter, not to derail the original topic, but another scenario I have seen on an arrow getting snapped off without hitting any trees was a few years ago on an archery bull hunt. I was calling for a buddy and he hit an elk low in the shoulder/leg and got enough penetration to go thru the edge of the shoulder/leg, but not enough to get thru the entire brisket/ cavity. Shot was low, but we watched the bull take a step after being shot and his arrow fall out with, if I remember right, 4" of arrow missing. The sound was unmistakable, shoulder shot. Loud Thwack with 0 penetration.

[buffhunter]

Huntharder I could see that definitely happen...... but one thing people dont realize is how flexible the ribs are also.... if you center punch one in the right spot it will flex enough to take almost all the energy out of the arrow. My good friend told me the actually had some arrows bounce back at them off the rib cages......

[#1huntinfool]

Lol I know this is late, but in 2010 my dad used a switchback with 275 grain arrows with a two blade rage, and got great penetration, it was a quartering away shot, @ 88 yrds. and the arrow was completly buried in the body fletchings and all.

last year i shot a bull @76yrds, with the ulmer edge, great penetration. both bows are shooting 70lbs, and going around 300 fps,
here is my bull you can see the entry hole

[Havasuhunter]

I've used expandable on deer and they worked great. A very experienced outfitter friend of mine swears by rage. Even with all that, I just feel more comfortable with a fixed blade. Legal in every state. No extra moving parts. No worrying about making sure your broad heads are set for the shot, etc. that's just me though. Simpler the better.

[Hyperwrx]

There are enough variables when hunting. I want to eliminate as many of them as possible and tip the odds in my favor. Mechanicals are another variable.