Only remedy is an elected commisioner

[TLH]

Hawkeye,

 

Man i feel your frustration i really do. I have been very lucky in the draw for antelope--2 archery--1 rifle and 1 muzzy tag--my Dad on the other hand is 0 for 18 and that is just wrong. I still say we can do something about the draws and i think it is a very good point that needs some fine tuned attention. I personally wouldn't have an issue with the antelope being a one in a lifetime hunt if you kill a buck--but i know a lot of folks that would cry foul if that happened. I am all for holding out 5 years if you were drawn for a quality tag of any kind and i really don't think the game and fish would lose any money if they did that. You have a had a bad run at tags man--i have only been drawn for spring turkey twice but i still get the bow out and chase them during the fall--along with deer, bear and tree rats. I guess i have adapted to the ways of Arizona by hunting with any type of weapon i can and with a bow i still can head to the Kiabab and hunt deer or any other unit that i would never get drawn for rifle in. I usually get a tag for elk because i like hunting in the limited opportunity hunts--you get a any elk tag and man it is a blast!! You may not see a lot of elk but you only need to see one and we see way more than that each year. I have never really been a trophy hunter--just a hunter and i have a hard time not killing the first legal animal i see--i know a lot of guys who will pass on 360" bulls to get that 370" bull--heck not me, give me a spike and see what happens--just never put the trophy in the animal more in the hunt. I guess what i am saying is maybe reevaluate where you put in and see if that helps your draw odds.

 

 

Now, if you drew a quality tag and you wanted to hunt a cow then i say that would work for me too. I am not sure why the game and fish didn't listen to the folks at the ADA but i will try to find out the reason.

 

 

 

As passionate as you are i would want you on my side in a fight and as a hunter you will always be on my side of the fight even if we disagree on some things--that is the gist of the whole conversation--make sure we can disagree without betraying any of our fellow hunters.

 

Not sure about the preference point system but i did speak with a young man and his Dad last year when i was guiding the Hunt of a Lifetime hunter and they said it is a little over rated and the Dad said it was the worst thing that ever happened to Colorado hunting. We never did get into why he thought this way but i will give him a call and find out why he is against it so much.

[KGAINES]

I thought sci-nevada and the group from tn that did the draw last year were independent groups, and the group last year screwed up enough to get dropped by the azgfd. I was at the commission meeting when the ADA presented their survey and watched two of the commissioners dismiss it as not scientific and not speaking for the majority. I then watched very few people get up to defend it, the ADA had their people there and the AES was also there and spoke up about it that I remember, but less than ten additional people spoke up about it representing a few other groups or themselves. I didn't and should have, it led me to get more involved with what is happening with hunting and with deer in AZ and at the least do my small part. Apathy and ignorance is the worst thing for the sport of hunting, complaining and not getting involved doesn't do anything for us either aside from splitting up an already small group. Tell the commissioners what you think they might like it, preference points wouldn't hurt them any, maybe since other states have landowner tags we should too (not), no matter what people would still apply and pay, but if you have an opinion tell them because they probably don't read this website to make their decisions, I am not saying your opinion are bad I just don't agree with them.

I will say it again to elect commissioners would be the fall of hunting in AZ, and once that decision was made it would never go back to the appointed commissioners. People that don't hunt wouldn't care how they vote, but hey pam anderson said this is bad or bill mahr said on hbo that hunting is bad, or the humane society that takes care of little puppies said this was bad, or did you see bambi, they would make it look like all hunters are poacher and killers, and as far as the nra goes they are backing Jennifer Martin for a second time as a commissioner, at least the three that are being recommended now are all hunters and worthy of the position.

[davecinaz]

TLH

I agree with some of the things you said but I strongly disagree with some also. You took only parts of what I said to react to. I didn't say I didn't trust Government. I said I didn't trust government without any oversight. I should add I don't trust government when there is large amounts of money being dealt with. You also said that you have hunted deer, Elk, antelope, and turkey. Well in my whole life of putting in for antelope I have never drawn a tag. I have only drawn one spring turkey tag in my life. You work with the GFD, so I can understand you being quick to defend them but in my 51 years of living in Arizona I have felt abandon by the whole system. A lot of people on the inside feel the same as you. But there are a lot that have some of the opinions I do. I saw a lot of them at some meetings when the whole subject we were dealing with was changed when the topic started getting ugly. Please tell me why you don't think that the preference points would work in Arizona. If the GFD is doing everything on the up and up then why is everything so secret when it comes to the actual act of the draw. This is my biggest problem with the present system. That and the wording on the questionair sent out to the hunters. They were worded so that only one of two outcomes could happen. Why then didn't they ask the very question every body has told me they would have liked to been asked. "Would you like to move almost all of the december tags to november and add some more to november. I know, you know and the hunters of arizona know what the outcome of that question was, and they ignored it. Ignoring the ADA survey and putting the phony one out that they did, was the ultimate betrayal. It has only been in the last couple of years I have become so bitter with the GFD. Also after hunting in Colorado and seeing how they treat their hunters. The draw seems more fair and the way they listen to input. I feel the only thing the AZGFD sees is money.

Ok, I finally can't take it any more! I've followed your thread on two different forums and I have to respond. First, we all get it - you're PO'd at G&F; hunting in Arizona used to be better; you love Colorado's preference system; you hate Arizona's bonus points; G&F ignored the ADA survey; G&F shut you all up at the meeting in Pinetop; you don't trust the government WITHOUT ANY OVERSIGHT; you think elected commissioners would solve all our problems; you think the draw results are phony; etc, etc, etc. You've repeated these points in some form or another in every response you've posted. I applaud your desire to improve things, but I doubt that I'm the only one tired of hearing you repeat yourself.

MY COMMENTS: 1) I agree with you that our hunting isn't what it used to be (I was actually also born here and four years earlier than you, so I've seen all the changes you have, plus some) - but open your eyes - the state isn't what it used to be either. For at least the last decade or more, we have been one of the fastest growing states in the country. This population explosion has put servere strains on the state that nobody could have even imagined 20, 30 or 40 years ago, and G&F has been pushed just like every other state agency has been with trying to meet the ever-increasing demands on our limited resources. 2) I don't exactly like the bonus system either, but it does work. I've not had as many tags as I'd like to have had, but I have had a lot of hunts, some quality and some not so quality. And I know people who have drawn three rut elk hunts in three consecutive years and others who have never drawn an antelope tag. 3) But that in and of itself doesn't mean the draw is rigged. 4) In my opinion-you would be sorry if we start electing the commissioners. As others have stated, and you've chosen to ignore, the anti-hunter and non-hunter votes WILL outnumber the hunters' votes, without any doubt, and in every county, not just maricopa/pima. They have financial resources to draw on to swing any vote away from the hunter minority (and we are the minority), given the chance. 5) I too can't explain why the survey was ignored, if in fact it was.

MY SUGGESTIONS FOR YOU, then I'm leaving these two forums and not wasting any more time reading your repetitive responses: 1) instead of making accusations about how G&F is rigging the draw, present us with some proof of your allegations, otherwise, it just sounds like sour grapes; 2) present us with some facts that support your contention that elected commissioners will solve our problems-do you have any proof of this, or is it just more hot air; 3) swallow some pride and go back to the meetings and try to be heard again; 4) try putting a positive spin on things-people might listen more and take you more seriously; 4) accept that we've all heard your position and move on; and finally, 5) consider moving to CO so you can be happy with the preference system.

Now, my ranting is done-I just had to get it off my chest. Thank God we live in America and I'm glad I live in Arizona-there are other places in the world where you might hunt me down for gettin' down on you like I did!