AGFD news What would you think of a new online club for hunters?

[stanley]

 

 

 

"Another thing to note is that surrendered tags don't necessarily need to go back to the department, but any of the approved 501c3 organizations. Such as the ones we are all familiar with that assist wounded military, terminally ill youth, and others. One would get their bonus points reinstated and get a tax write off in the process this way."

 

Any process like this needs to be VERY carefully controlled. What if an approved 501C3 had the same intentions as the backers of HB2072 that was (thankfully) defeated?

 

OK, here is a scenario for the tag return. Say I've got max points for elk. With those I can get drawn for a trophy rifle hunt any year. I get an early unit 10 bull tag. Mr. X pays me $5000 cash under the table to "donate" the tag to a specific 501C3. Said 501C3 sells the tag to Mr. X or his wife or son or ??? for another $5000. I get my bonus points back plus the point as if I was not drawn. Next year, by definition I'm at the top of the heap again so I get an early rifle bull tag in unit 23. Wash rinse and repeat, over and over for years.

 

The rules need to be VERY tightly written to prevent all kinds of unforeseen abuse.

This is the first thing I thought of when I read this proposal. I have no problem with a tag surrender policy, as long as it is available to everyone, and any surrendered tags went to the next guy in line ONLY. Allowing someone to turn it over to a so called "nonprofit" org, while retaining their points, is outrageous, and should be TOTALLY out of the question. All points should be lost. Anything less would be a way for corruption to work it's way in. Such a policy would grossly cheapen everyone else's points, and cheat those next in line.

Hunt of a lifetime? Really guys, there lots of worthy organizations who deserve surrendered tags and already get them.

 

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No doubt. Some of us would like to make sure it stays that way.

 

Some of us remember HB2072 that would have allocated a bunch of premium tags to AZSFW ( never mentioned by name in the bill but the only 501C3 that met the criteria outlined therein) to be sold at their discretion. By the way, some other folks thought that bill allocated tags to a "worthy organization", just a difference of opinion about what constitutes "worthy". By the way, as I remember HOAL opposed HB2072!

 

Some of us would just like to see this tightly controlled to prevent big money interests from getting another leg up on the masses.

 

Some of us worry about abuse of any government system by folks who learn to play the system.

 

 

These are VERY good points! I would urge you to try to make it to the Flagstaff meeting to provide your input personally. Scott and the department really want to hear from as many sportsmen as possible.

 

S.

[tyler.durden.airlines]

You can comment all you want to this blog, but AZGFD will never hear you unless you go to their public meetings or email portal@azgfd.gov. I personally hate the idea, and I plan to let them know it. You should do the same regardless if you love or hate it.

[krp]

How many lines of code would it take to add all of the little tweaks to the draw that everyone wants. All of these little changes are going to cost money and will not improve your odds one iota.

 

I'm not sure what you mean but the draw isn't involved with the portal or tag surrender, draw code will be written for the process we have now, since the contract is up next year for the IT the state required G&F to use, let's hope they can code a smooth running system. I haven't heard of any tweeks, just making it efficient... but I've been mostly working now that construction has picked up and spending time with my 2 year old granddaughter... caught myself humming nursery rhymes while humping sacks of cement up two flights of stairs today.

 

Kent

[wapitibob]

They've patched the old code for a long time and aren't patching it anymore. The new code was never intended to "improve your odds". Updated draw stats are on the agenda but not till the new stuff is done.

[elkaholic]

In a nutshell the new system will impact the draw

 

the fact of the matter is a NEW program / state of the art software - will not run exactly like the old program has for the past 20+ yrs

 

therefore odds shouldn't be affected - but your chances of the new program changing things up is going to happen

 

hopefully guys with 6 - 8 10 points will actually stand a better chance

 

it seems obvious to a lot of us its the same guys yr in and out drawing and the same guys getting more bonus points

 

I 'm looking forward to a NEW program / software to run the draw

[krp]

Just a couple of thoughts...

 

The draw or changes to it isn't what's being proposed here, any connection is that Scott and the team will be free to create their own code and system from scratch... same as the Portal.

 

The issues here are a new user friendly website, a possible members only and tag surrender.

 

My opinion...

 

Website is all good

 

Members only has to have some real return value that has nothing to do with tags or special privileges with getting tags.

 

Tag surrender must stand by itself, there are always consequences unseen (like the 20% bonus pass for premium hunts has become dominated by NRs, becoming an overloaded preference points system for them) anyway, there are consequences that need to be thought of first instead of jumping in and and finding out later.

 

Kent

[AZ8]

Tag surrender needs to go away. What's happened to personal responsibility anymore? With the exception of military deployment, I see no other purpose of a tag surrender policy.

 

The current donation policy works.

 

Man up and accept the fact that getting drawn is a risk. A gamble so to speak. Sometimes life takes over and you have to make a tough decision. Accept it. Everyone seems to looking for a way to "bail them out" when the road gets rough and unexpected stresses make you re-evaluate the priorities in your life.

 

A solution searching for a problem. That's all this is.

[tyler.durden.airlines]

Anyone, including G&F employees, who say they can prevent people from gaming the "club" system are not telling the truth. No matter how they spin it, this is a bad idea. Email portal@azgfd.gov and tell them how you feel, go to a meeting, call the G&F, or email a commissioner.

[stanley]

YES! All feedback/opinions should be shared with the department!

 

Next meeting is tomorrow (Tues, 7/8), 7PM at Bass Pro Shops in Mesa.

 

Will we see you there, Tyler?

 

S.

 

[Flatlander]

Looking forward to seeing folks there tonight.

[wapitibob]

Tag surrender limited to single applicants and passed to the next in line effects only 2 people. The guy that surrendered it and the guy receiving it. I see nothing wrong with it provided those conditions are met.

[trphyhntr]

ya that's what I was thinking, some hippy bull if you ask me. but that just my opinion.

[bonecollector]

Was there a deadline discussed about how late can you surrender a tag if this goes into effect? Hunts need to be planned out and I dont think giving the next guy inline a tag at the last minute would be fair.

[Chef]

Was there a deadline discussed about how late can you surrender a tag if this goes into effect? Hunts need to be planned out and I dont think giving the next guy inline a tag at the last minute would be fair.

Yes, loose guidelines on a deadline have been discussed. Based on the current deadlines set forth by other states, it can be as close as 1-2 weeks from the hunt start date.

 

I agree that this is too close for comfort looking at it from a sportsmans point of view. Many times it takes considerable planning and money and vacation time from work in order to make a hunt happen. So a lot of times, I think people wouldn't be able to take advantage of these opportunities when they arise. After all, you would basically lose your bonus points as if you were drawn for the hunt in the first place. Not a good selling point.

 

So, what happens when the next person in line can't go? Azgfd would call the next guy, so on and so forth, until the tag is accepted.

 

As a business person I see an avenue for unnecessary expenses to be taken on by the department. How many man hours will it take to go through the applicants? How much paperwork? This I don't know.

[stoney4325]

Went to the meeting last nite if Flagstaff. There were 7 people there. Pretty sad. As expected most of the talk was about tag surrender. This group liked the idea of surrender but the re-allocation of the tag was the sticking point. I think since everyone complains about the point system, why not create a list of the people in the 20% pass that didnt get a tag, arrange them by max points and draw number and go from there. I don't understand how the draw works but i think using the bonus points as a starting point would be more fair.